THE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.
However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.
The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”
As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.
What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.
Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)
Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).
Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring
My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80′s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).
Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.
So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?
Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”
But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.
The Truth, or Not?
So, what is the truth?
Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?
What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.
However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.
Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.
In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.
Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?
Thanks for your input for the LOUD PIPE ISSUE! Some of you all need to be debators, People would pay big bucks for all that. Loud Pipes I believe have saved me from un- aware people texting, yacking on cell phones, and misbehaving while driving. I hope the quiet bikes can be so lucky. Statistically quiet bikes to me get whacked more often than Loud Piped bikes.Take a stock Gold Wing for instance, too dang quiet, they are so quiet that the stereo is the only thing you will hear and that is if they have it turned up. Mine is a very low drone and only is loud if I wack the throttle, Then, it is a moderate roar. An 02′ Touring Cruiser by Victory with a stage 1 kit and large turn outs (turned out) like a Peterbilt. So, with the output of the pipes not pointed down they are pointed outward giving the maximum effective sound makes me happy!
I like my loud pipes and they work for me! I have had a quiet Gold Wing and too many folks try to run over you! People do not look twice for bikes, so, “Loud pipes do in my humble opinion do save lives”
Ya’ll have a great day and be safe out there!
Loud pipes save lives actually does kind of make sense but almost strictly in an off road riding scenario. You get a bunch of dirtbikes and atv’s running all over little narrow over grown trails at high speed, you might not be able to tell a trail intersects with yours or see a bike comming but if it has a loud pipe theres a good chance your alerted to something being close and to be cautious! Even at that they way sound travels though woods and trails can be deceptive and even if you think you can tell wheres its comming from you may be off. In terms of street riding, its just a “look over here at me” thing and its annoying. Im not saying make them super quite nor am i saying a harley with loud exhaust never saved the riders life but is it common, no its not. In all most cases paying attention or lack there of, on the part of all parties involved is going to play a much greater role on or off road!
How about. . .wait for it. . . .a quiet bike with a . . . wait for it. . .a LOUD HORN?
Best of both worlds; you can ride peacefully. . .and peaceably. . .but when you need to let someone you. . you have 139 db at your disposal. . .Aftermarket horns from Stebel or Flamm are pretty cheap and selective ways to get the attention of those around you. . .
well rodger you are/ going to brake the law with your pipes…and that was my point ..no matter what your point of view /and mind also [ loud pipes do bother me ] .. its the larger amount of pissed off people that will make the law , vote and the NO muffler pipes will ruin it for everyone…and thats it calif. muffler laws are close .. $ to be made in tickets …enjoy
It’s the Roy, Vern and Ken show here. My pipes are add ons and moderately loud but soften when I lower the RPM’s and yes I have used my pipes to make the jerk pressing into my lane take notice…for distance riding I use ear plugs and they do wonders. JMO. and I am a liberal 1st year rider at 59 who thinks everyone should do as they damn please as long as don’t break the law. I hate bigoted rap music that blares from 30% of the cars on the road these days and I can hear that crap over my loud pipes so maybe their not as loud as some may think they are. Ride safe and in peace.
lobster j. yep and they will be the first to cry and blame some one else, then want all [ even jap ] bikers to sign paper to stop the helmet laws, stop the muffler laws..” we are all riding brothers” then …. how sad …just a little muffler and not NO muffler would go a long way…hey they are even blameing people here, on this site, when even if we all say ok no mufflers now your happy ..STILL would not matter when it came time to vote in new laws to restrict them…theres more of the non riders that they pissed off.. they just do not get it, never will.. just call people names ..
LOL….well, I can’t hear your pipes, but I can certainly tell your are one of those “annoying jag-offs” you mention a lot farther away than the sound of any exhaust pipes.
Anyone…and it’s ALWAYS a liberal…that derogatorily puts “Jesus” in their screen name, is deliberately offending hundreds of millions of Christians…and some others too, I’m sure….and I would bet that that is a heck of a lot more people than any loud exhaust pipe…in ANY neighborhood…and at anytime of the day or night.
Bet you wished you COULD have voted for obama…don’t ya’….
Loud pipes identify assholes. I regret the fact my province(BC) is about to outlaw uncertified beany-type helmets. The fools that ride on the street with inadequate protection are typically the same annoying jag-offs that ride unmuffled Harleys. Pity the government has decided to interrupt the process of natural selection.
LOL….Ken…Ken…Ken….it really drives you liberals nuts when it is pointed out to you how easily identifiable you are to others with truly open minds, doesn’t it?
Liberals, like you, always think that they can overpower ( yes, Ken, I KNOW it’s one word, it was a typo…you made one also, by the way…more on the dictionary later) someone else, who has a different opinion on an issue, if they demonize them and call them names….it’s an old, and very often used part of the liberal political playbook….worked to perfection by the lowlife Clinton gang, of James Carville, Paul Begala, and George Stephanopoulos, in their infamous “War Room”, when that scurrilous crew came to Washington for their eight years of scandals.
The irony here, at least to me, is that I was agreeing with about 90 percent of what you had written….your logic is fairly good, and your writing is excellent….it’s your willingness to label a whole group of motorcycle riders unfairly because you don’t like the behavior of some of them.
You tell me that “name calling is not useful”, yet, in typical liberal fashion YOU are the one who started the name calling….i.e. “small-testicled morons”…”jackass biker”….”selfish jerks”….”selfish obnoxious immature jackasses”…..I’m sure there are others, but hopefully even you can see the point…..but it’s okay….it’s a common affliction among liberals.
Also, your insulting questioning of my ability to read is another old liberal attempt to try to put their opponent on the defensive….doesn’t work, as obviously I can read well enough to see that your feeble attempts at attacking and humiliating those that disagree with you are just part of the fading arsenal of another liberal that MUST have his way, and “damn it, if you don’t agree with me, then I’ll just insult and belittle you”, probably thinking that they will just stop arguing. You also claim that this lame technique is “quite common behavior among the anti-Obamacrats that I know and have heard”….really?…well, possibly those that you know PERSONALLY, but I defy you to show me ANY political panel show on TV where the panel is made up of more conservatives than liberals….and on all THOSE shows, the outnumbered conservative usually doesn’t even get to finish a sentence before they are attacked by the other….MAJORITY….liberals on the panel….”shut down and overpower”….get it?….it’s a LIBERAL tactic.
You asked why I stated that this topic has nothing to do with your interests….this forum is about motorcycles and those that ride them…..you admit that you don’t own a motorcycle, and don’t ride one….seems like a pretty clear statement to me…but then, you came here looking for a “fight”, and that is what you got….and when you got some disagreement with your opinion your really got nasty….another liberal tactic….are you seeing a pattern here yet, Ken?
And, finally….you once again make reference to the dictionary by telling me to look up the word “liberal”. I KNOW what liberal means in the LITERAL sense…and it’s a nice word. My objection is in the POLITICAL use of the word to describe a democrat.. Democrats have made “liberal” a “four letter” word….their total lack of character (can you say “Slick Willie”?)….their constant lies and deception to get their bills passed ( remember obama touring the country claiming that illegal mexicans would NOT be covered in his monstrous Obama-care bill, yet there it was, right in the wording of the bill…THEY WERE INCLUDED!…and, when the Kenyan told his lie one time too many….in his State of the Union speech…. the congressman from South Carolina yelled out “YOU LIE”!….and he was correct…Obama…and the liberals…had been lying all along….and they removed the coverage two days later…..only to secretly put it back in the next week….typical liberal behavior. Hell, “liberal” has gotten such a bad name that even the low class, and totally dishonest, Hillary Clinton….and even obama….refer to them selves as “progressives”…so, what does THAT tell you? (by the way, look up Margaret Sanger and the Progressive movement and see what a “nice” group of people you are identifying with.
Anyway, as I said in the beginning….I basically agreed with your original posts…maybe YOU should re-read MY first post…then the ranting and raving…belittling…name calling….and attempts at humiliation came along…and for THOSE types of behavior….all typically LIBERAL….I will oppose you forever.
Liberals….they should all be drowned at birth.
Jay,
Sigh. I’m wasting my time, I know. Try it again – go back and READ what I wrote. I did not assume that the Sheriff was dishonest or “out to mess me over.” What I said was that it sounded as thought that’s what you might have been saying, and if that were true then things would not have been handled properly.
Look up “assume (v)”, and then look up “suspect (v).” Notice that they do not have the same definition.
Do something useful with my life.. Well, I’m wasting my time posting what I sincerely hope is intelligent and well reasoned commentary, even though it seems to fall on deaf (I wonder why that could be?) ears. I am trying in some small way to make the world a more pleasant place for everyone. Damn, I guess that’s not useful enough. Would it be more useful if I just ripped the muffler off my car and blasted around town at full throttle with my middle finger in the air at everyone?
You seem to be suggesting that because I chose to express my opinion, and specifically because my opinion disagrees with yours and your desire to do whatever you like at the expense of everyone else, that I am some sort of pitiful unhappy waste of life. On the contrary, I have a very good life, I am quite happy at home, I have an excellent career, and I enjoy volunteering and donating to a variety of charities. In other words, I support myself and my family and I give back to my community.
“Don’t be so critical and judgmental.” Hmm… I am critical of those who choose to ignore the health and happiness of those around them, for their own selfish reasons. I judge them to be selfish, obnoxious and childish. Along the same lines, I am critical of people who choose to steal property, and I judge them to be thieves. I am critical of those who choose to injure or kill other people, and I judge them to be dangerous and deserving of punishment. If expecting people to behave themselves as members of (rather than outside) our society, and holding them accountable when they do not makes me critical and judgmental, then so be it. So, what you are really telling me to do with that command (it could have been a suggestion, though the strict text is in the form of a command) is to stop trying to be an informed and active citizen, and to allow whatever behavior I see without complaint. I’ll try to remember that if I ever see your house being broken into, and try not to be so critical and judgmental of the thieves.
Yes, loud pipes get you heard. That at least we can all agree on. However, hearing is not the same thing as locating or observing. When I hear the motor-fart of open pipes, I do not start looking around trying to locate the bike. I keep on doing what I am doing (being an attentive driver) and I SEE the bike exactly the same as I would if it were not obnoxiously loud. In the noise of traffic, just because some vehicle out there somewhere is noisier than than the others does not make it more visible, it just makes it louder.
Again, if there is any hard data to dispute that statement, I’ll be happy to read it. You seem to think that somehow simply restating your opinion or insulting me makes your point more valid. All that does is make you look foolish.
I sincerely thank you for your wish that I will have a great day, and I wish you the same. As long as I don’t have to listen to open pipes a few feet from my open window, I probably will have a great day. Even if I do, the rest of my day will probably be great – just not that part of it. One suggestion for you, though: If you sincerely wish for people to have great days, demonstrate it with your actions, not your words. Go out and put a set of reasonable (notice that I did not specify stock, merely reasonable) mufflers on your bike, and then you can ride around knowing that you are being responsible and mature, and not contributing to the unhappiness or anger of those around you.
It seems that this discussion has devolved into personal attacks and back and forth bickering. If any data were to be had, I presume it would have surfaced by now. If minds were going to be changed, I presume they would have been changed by now. I have seen nothing to change my opinion that loud pipes are no safer than stock mufflers and that they are unpleasant for the rest of us, and apparently my comments have not changed the opinions of those who feel that loud pipes are their God-given right. Unless something of relevance to the topic comes up, specifically something which has not been said already, I will not waste my time or yours with any further posts. I sincerely hope that someone has been inspired to think critically about why they choose to run open pipes, rather than simply dogmatically chanting “loud pipes save lives.” If so, I have not completely wasted my time here.
Have a wonderful day, blessed by whatever deity or spirits you choose to believe in.
Ken needs to take his medicine….. the sheriff could relate to my delemia that was all after accessing the facts of point of impact to each vehical involved. Stop assuming everyone is out to mess you over. Breath…. don’t let your life get so over run with hatred and muck. take what is left of your life and do something constructive with it. Don’t be so critical and judgmental. Loud pipes get heard you have heard enough to know. so give them room and let them go by and have a great day!
Have some fun!
KEN ..oh ya sport bikes WITH the track mufflers not the street after market.. are just as anoying for sure.. just they do not rev it up at every light . BUT they to think that the noise makes them go faster…they must pray to the loud god too…and yes on the no or bennie helmets.its ” wind in your hair ”..WHAT HAIR they cover the bald spot with a rag so their bald head will not get burned… then theres buy american bike ,pro american, freedom, while wearing the nazi make beleve helmets.. sorry my uncles fought you nazi f——kers..fakers and you were not even born yet…so drop the crap… there i go again getting off the subject..so if your life is worth saving with loud pipes ,its not with no helmet ??..any way like i say over and over ,i do not care one way or another and living in fl you just get numb to it…so going back and forth on this is dumb in it self.. the voters will decide to shut them up and make $$$$$$. and the cops will write tickets to make $$$$$. and all will have to buy new mufflers for more $$$$$$ .. and they will complain, but who cares..i have mufflers so …no tickets….and they will stand around talking about the good old days of no mufflers, but each one will not be able to hear the other one because they are deaf…or picture this all the big bad black clothed h.d. bikers standing around a bar trying to hand sign with a beer in one hand…what a hoot that will be like to see….whats the hand sign for ”loud hand sign saves lives ”…dam there i go again
I like your attitude, Roy! You seem to enjoy life, and that’s probably the most important thing any of us can do.
I keep forgetting to point out one more bit of nonsense. There seems to be a very strong correlation between the “loud pipes save lives” crowd and the “helmets are for sissies” crowd. At best, I see those little skull caps that probably do little more than make a nice bowl for biker brains beside the road. If saving lives were really so important to people, wouldn’t they DEMAND the best in the only real passive safety feature a biker can get? At least the sport bike crowd (some of which are just as loud and obnoxious, I agree) have the sense to wear real helmets. Of course, that could be simply an attempt to hide their faces so nobody recognizes the guy riding down the road with his legs spread and his ass in the air…
HI KEN this is fun, is it not….i was ranting sure why not,its fun -you should try it sometime .. it lightens the ” i am saved / save me god of noise ” . folks… specifics they do not understand.. or have .. so all your doing is corn -fuzzing them. . to them you do not ride so your not worth saving , not even you hearing.. only the chosen ones are worth savings .. all others can cut off there ears like the painter, a mark / sign of the unholy….they dressed in black, with head rags, 1,000′s of patches, pins, go tee’s,fake tats,beer guts, gray haired balding old wise men. will SAVE THE TRUE THE future of motorcycleing, god of noise bless the the ones who have heard the noise.calling..as they rumble from light to light blessing all who gauze upond their blackness…..
ah DAN no, i am right of attla the hunn, sorry …i was just having some fun, like i have said over and over its just the h.d. people who need loud [ read NO PIPES ] to be SAVED..and THEY are the ones who will get all the NON riders WHO vote. to VOTE [ calif did ] to come down on ALL RIDERS WHO HAVE so sort of MUFFLERS..but are mild loud above stock…so my point is EVEN IF LOUD [NO MUFFLERS ] saves lives [their lives] its means NOTHING one way or the other because theres more of them ,[ that they pissed off ] then them that are doing the pissing off to be saved …so gee DAN who do you think will win VOTEING -bye bye pissers…thanks for the memorys.. so keep on bitching that tou need to be saved it will fall on DEAF ears.. [ that you helped create ]..get it dan i just can’t help having fun[ sort of lighting the mood]…its to ” like this is real important stuff ” i want my loud pipes or you non american, ….freedom to make people deaf .. sorry there i go again
Thank you for your opinion, Dan. Now, please point out specific examples of how I “ranted and raved like a lunatic” or attempted to “shut down and overpower (it’s one word) someone who disagrees with my point of view.” I have to point out, by the way, that far from being “typical liberal tactics,” such behavior seems quite common among the anti-Obamacrats that I know and have heard.
I think you will find, if you bother to READ (do you know how to do that, or do you just know how to pick out keywords and react automatically, calling anyone you disagree with a liberal?) what I took the time to write, you will find that I have made very specific points regarding why I feel this behavior is inappropriate and why the claimed correlation is not valid. I have also repeatedly asked for any evidence to prove my thesis invalid. If someone feels that they should have the right to ignore another person’s health and the laws and customs of the land, I feel that it incumbent upon them to justify their antisocial behavior. I also feel completely justified in complaining about the behavior. The closes I have come to a rant, if you like to call it that, is in stating quite emphatically that I have no sympathy for anti-social behavior or the consequences of it. I have stated, and I will re-state, that I will not defend a person who was attacked or harmed in any way while and because of being a jerk to such an egregious extent. If a person thumbs their nose at society, they deserve exactly the same in return.
I am also curious as to why you feel that this topic has “nothing to do with my real interests.” I am quite interested in being able to sleep through the night, or being able to drive with my windows open without being left with pain and ringing in my ears. If I were not interested in the subject, what possible reason would I have for bothering to spend my time discussing it? You cannot win an argument with an opinionated idiot, so only a fool would try. You can, however, attempt to have a rational debate or discussion with someone open and honest enough to consider a point if view other than their own. I leave it to you to decide which you would like to be.
If you have nothing useful to add to the discussion, kindly sit on your hands and let the adults talk. Name-calling is not useful. Attacking a person’s political affiliation or other opinion is not useful. Facts are useful. Logic is useful. If you’d like to explain why I am wrong, using anything more than your own opinion, I’ll be glad to hear it. Prove that loud pipes save lives, and I’ll invest in a good set of ear plugs tomorrow. Of course, that would be defeating the purpose, but that’s more of that pesky logic that gets in the way of opinions, so no real need to pay any attention to that, right?
One last thing, Dan. If you bother to look up, or even to think about the definition of “liberal,” I believe you will find that it connotes an open mind, a willingness to consider all points of view, and a general freedom from dogma. I consider it a compliment to be considered so considerate and open, so I sincerely thank you. I know that you intended it as an insult, and that you will most likely consider to do so, but I find that the insults of closed-minded people are often praise to those willing to stop and think about it. So, again, thank you. You have allowed both of us to demonstrate some token of our respective characters, and I appreciate the opportunity.
Wow…Ken and Roy….this is typical “liberal” behavior…..hunting down people you don’t even know on a website having nothing to do with your real interests, then ranting and raving like lunatics, ala the “Occupy Wallstreet” mobs, and other liberal, democrat attempts to shut down and over power anyone who disagrees with your point of view.
Let me guess….you voted for obama…didn’t ya’….admit it.
jay you hit the deer, like you ran off the road after it, or did the deer hit you ..if it hit you..the deer should of had loud pipes… right …and you would of heard it coming ,so you would of been safer.????…
i have not had this much fun since i took the baffles out of my 1962 yamaha 250 2-stroke yds-2 and ran around the neighbor hood, at 10,000 rpm … and you think your h.d. loud pipes save your lives ….at that ring -a-ding pitch i was saving the whole block.. but wait its not a h.d. aproved licensed sound, so it was a unamerican sound… so no lives were saved…and h.d. riders did not like it… it hurt THEIR ears.and gave them headaches.[ ok it was the smoke ].. only american h.d. [ pat pending ] sound can save lives [ and deer ]….so they yelled ride a american sounding real bike.and save lives…so much pure wisdumb comes from mill-walk-key.. hey lavern and the sherlies came from there, they know dude,.so h.d. only loud pipes save lives…
so to save bambi the deer cut the mufflers off your car/truck .. SOUNDS good to me…ANNNNNND save thumper, bushey tail tree rats,chip and dale, bugesy the wabbit..peppe la pew, road runner, and tell all of gods happy woodland folk.that your coming.run away little friends run run…just hack off the header pipes and save the WORLD….hot dam.. smashing idea ..everyone deaf , no can use the cell phone= safer roads.himmmmm but what about texting….dam theres always something to foul a plan of saving the world up.. anyone have ideas…help…
Deer, I have hit one at 40 MPH! and she was running at my headlight from behind a hidden hedge and it was NOT fun! Ears and snout in my wind shield and she twisted off and took my front end to the left and the rear-end to the right, I was able to coax the bike down on its left side and ride it to a stop after spinning.
So, I have had enough of Deer myself thank you. After checking over the bike and myself I rode to work!
Jay,
The accident you describe represents nearly the ideal situation in which loud pipes would have made a difference. Being loudest behind the bike, you should have been even more noticeable and should NEVER be rear-ended. The fact that you were argues strongly against the value of those pipes as safety features. Your description of the Sergent being a biker and “taking care of the situation” sounds suspiciously like you received special treatment from one biker to another. If that is the case (and I have no idea whether it was or not) then he should be fired and fined for his illegal behavior. You deserve no more (and obviously no less) than the full protection of the law afforded to any other person.
Saying that loud pipes have kept you safe for 75,000 miles is simply ridiculous. It’s sort of like arguing that smoking can’t be dangerous because “I ain’t dead yet.” I would argue that your pipes have had no real impact on your safety. If you have that many miles without being hit (you don’t, by your own admission), then it represents your ability to ride defensively.
As I stated before, the test is simple. Show me ONE credible study which shows a statistically higher rate of fatalities on quiet bikes relative to louder ones. I doubt you can because I doubt any such data exist. Given the strength of opinions on the subject, I would think that somebody would have offered some credible evidence by now, if the claimed correlation between loud pipes and lives saved were true. The fact that I have yet to find one shred of evidence suggests strongly to me that there is in fact NO correlation, and the slogan is merely an excuse to be obnoxious.
You seem to think I have anger issues. When somebody rapes my ear and then tells me I have to like it, you’re damn right I get angry. When somebody blasts past my house at 2 in the morning, rattling my windows and waking me up, you’re damn right I get angry. When an entire community chooses to defend the behavior, I get angry. When the DMV makes me pass an inspection that includes requiring a working muffler while allowing open pipes on bikes with engines larger than my car’s, I get angry. So yeah, I’m angry. I’m angry at selfish obnoxious immature jackasses who want to do whatever the hell they like and don’t give a rat’s ass about the rest of the world, including me. And no, it’s not just bikers which are guilty of such obnoxious noise pollution, but that’s the topic at hand.
Vern,
In one sentence you say that I am incorrect in claiming that motorcyclists are vulnerable at all times, yet in the very next sentence you claim that motorcyclists have accepted the risks associated with riding. Which is it, risk or no risk? I never said that getting on a motorcycle is a one-way trim to the morgue. I said that to ride a motorcycle you must accept the fact that there is no safety in an accident, and that accidents are more likely than when in a car because of the risk factors – including a heavy dose of inattentive drivers.
Also, you asked why I bothered to express my opinion. No, I do not own a bike. I have nothing against bikes or riders, so long as they enjoy themselves responsibly. If I were willing to accept the risk (I’m not) I would be right there with you. I found this forum after a search, following one too many people saying to me that loud pipes save lives. Posting here gives me a chance to express my opinion in a way that will at least be seen, and possibly considered, by motorcyclists. If I can get at least one person to re-think their decision to be obnoxiously loud, then I’ve done somebody a favor.
jay — deer do NOT VOTE … and they must be deaf because they seem to run into cars a lot.. so your pipes are of no value..and there hearing is at a higher pitch range then any no pipe h.d. could hope to get to….wait i am off the subject … again deer do not vote .so saveing lives is not the issue, its pissing off the one’s who VOTE …and thats the ones who loud pipes stop from hearing the cell phones while they try to drive…and stay on the road..and hear there loud music boom -boom …your pissing them off stoping them pissing off some one else and that will not do…vote your out of here .. now they can piss you off with there … what ever thing that makes them happy pissing people off…there pissing trumphs your pissing every time…more of there pissers then yours …got to love this site
“TRUTH OR NOT” does not evidently ride, and probably does not look twice for motorcyclists,
I am not being mean, but hopefully truthful, I just want to give people a chance to hear my bike and look where the sound is coming from, I slowly pass people and let the cars/ vehicles know where I am so they won’t run over me. If there are cars that change speeds a lot and are being a bother, I will go around them. My loud pipes do announce my presence and I will use my lights and horn if need be to warn folks I am going around. So, Do not Judge the sound of my pipes being a bad thing but a warning not to run us over.
Have a safe Day!
“you’re a sitting duck and nothing but a pile of biker mush waiting to happen” “Every person who gets on a bike knows (or should, if they have two brain cells to rub together) this and has accepted it.”
I really don’t think the majority of us (long-time, experienced motorcyclists) agree with your premise that we should accept we are nothing but biker mush waiting to happen. Most of us enjoy what we do, and are fully conscious of the risks. I personally have driven my Harley in all but four of the 48 contiguous states, and four Canadian provinces without becoming a statistic.
Just one last question and I’ll leave you alone. Since you have such strong feelings about this subject, and clearly are not a motorcyclist, why do you even read this web site? And please don’t say you read it because you have a right to read it… I’m not challenging your ability to read what you wish to read, I just wonder why you subject yourself to something that so obviously gets your blood pressure up.
Ken, you have an anger issue, and my loud pipes have kept me safe for 75,000 plus miles on this bike alone! In Florida we have some goofy driver’s and a bunch of them on cell phones, but the only time I was hit I was rear ended by a truch that tried to turn from the non-turn lanes when the turn lanes cleared and ran me into two vehicles in front of me and my bike was straight and in neutral. If my bike was not completely straight it would have collapsed around me and smashed between the forces. The seargent in the Sheriffs Department had biker wings on and He said “We’ll Take Care of This.” I felt some relief. No I do not want to be plowed over by people like you in any situation and will avoid it at all costs! Please see someone about your anger issues. I just want to ride and be safe about it, and if it takes being aggressive to get away from bad folks I will!
Have a Blessed Day!
“Do you really hate motorcycles that much?”
I don’t hate motorcycles, or motorcycle riders at all, Vern. But I stand by my comments.
A motorcycle is fundamentally unstable. Show me one that will stand up on its own. They fall over, every time. To keep it upright requires a balancing act or extra support. At speed and in a straight line, gyroscopic forces will keep them upright, but that doesn’t help you much in a curve. Try going down the road at 65 mph and turn the wheel hard to either side, I dare you. I’ll do it in my car, you do it on your bike, and we’ll see which of us survives.
A motorcycle is fundamentally unsafe. There is absolutely no protection for the rider – from the weather, road debris, accidents, anything. Being unstable (see above) it is also very sensitive to road conditions. Hit a slick spot, cross a railroad track at a sharp angle, go over a bumpy spot in the road, etc. – the bike is out of control before you know it. Since you must share the road with unqualified and unattentive drivers in 3 ton vehicles, you’re a sitting duck and nothing but a pile of biker mush waiting to happen. The bike has no safety features, active or passive, that will help prevent or avoid an accident or protect the rider in one. It is NOT safe, it is fundamentally UNsafe.
I do not say this because I hate bikes, or in some attempt to ban them or anything else. It is a simple statement of fact. Every person who gets on a bike knows (or should, if they have two brain cells to rub together) this and has accepted it. Arguing that they should be allowed to misbehave because of this would be like a skydiver arguing that they should be allowed to level my house to make a softer landing spot in case the ‘chute doesn’t open. YOU accepted the risks, don’t make ME suffer for it.
Wow… “a fundamentally unstable and unsafe vehicle”. Ken, while I agree that overly loud pipes are a pain in the…ear, I have to wonder about your comment. Do you really hate motorcycles that much?
“P/C people and their P/C ways are out of order.”
You know what, Jay? You’re right. People ought to be able to do whatever the hell they want, and screw behaving like a member of society. By the same logic, I ought to be able to run over bikes in parking lots, on the road, and especially if there is somebody on them. I mean, laws against such behavior are simply P/C crap, right?
As for banning texting and talking on cell phones, that’s just more P/C crap – they ought to be able to do what they want. What right do you have to insist that they cannot enjoy their toys as they see fit?
Oh, I get it now. You have a double standard. YOU should be able to be the jackass you want to be, but EVERYBODY ELSE should have to behave themselves. That’s exactly the kind of childishness I was complaining about. If you want to have the protections that come with being part of society, you have to earn them by being part of society yourself. Do you think it should be okay for me to run open pipes on my car whenever you piss me off on the road? All the time, if I feel like it? No, that would never pass inspection, and it would get me a ticket passing the first cop – and rightly so. Give me one good reason why you deserve any more than I do, just because of what you have CHOSEN to travel on.
You have chosen to ride a fundamentally unstable and unsafe vehicle. Accept it. Don’t try to justify your obnoxious machismo by claiming that it somehow makes your death trap safe.
I have an 02″ Victory Touring Cruiser and it has a stage 1 kit and turn out pipes, only loud when I want it to be especially when a person is on a cell phone and yacking away and drifts into my lane. I will blow my Bad Boy horn and get away from them. Other reasons for loud pipes is to keep Deer away in the boonies where I live. just putting around the sound is a very low drone and pleasent. But wide open is loud and ment to be. P/C people and their P/C ways are out of order. The texting and yacking on cell phones should be the next topic to discuss. and leave us bikers alone.
Be free, Ride free!
I ride a 2003 Harley Night Train…it has “Screaming Eagle” slip ons on the exhaust pipes, and they are a “tad” louder than stock. They sound “mellow, and throaty”…and I love the sound.
I do agree with the spittle spewing ranters on here, however….some of the after market exhaust pipes are obnoxiously loud, and there SHOULD be…and I’m sure there is….an upper decibel limit….hopefully it will be above my Screaming Eagle pipes…did I mention I LOVE that sound? LOL
As far as “saving lives”….I’m not sure about anyone else, but, that damn Night Train sure saves mine….every time I settle into “the saddle”, and cruise down the highway.
Loud pipes may have saved lives before air conditioning was on every car and truck. With the windows up and the radio on, no one can hear you till it’s too late. Best way to ride is to ride like ON ONE CAN SEE YOU. Ride safe my brothers and sisters, ride safe.
“piss off some one at 2 am and they take it out later on any biker they can when ever they can”
Roy,
I try really hard not to be like that. As much as I dislike loud pipes, I have no problem with bikers in general. I love the machines, the art, the passion. While I don’t own a bike myself, it’s only because I do not want to put my life in the hands of a teenager behind the wheel of a 3 ton cell phone/movie theater/hair salon/day care. If there were roads just for bikes, I’d be right there. Quietly, of course! So I really don’t want to take my frustration out on bikers in general. The guy who should pay for the behavior is the one who’s misbehaving in the first place.
Hey Ken why don’t you tell us how you really feel !!!
I agree with you 1000% by the way……
very true and if your or anyone is on a jury and he had loud pipes hes going down the tubes because of it…not fair but its the real deal, real world.. piss off some one at 2 am and they take it out later on any biker they can when ever they can… thats just the way of the world..
Let’s be honest. Loud pipes piss people off, and they make small-testicled morons feel more manly. If the point was to make yourself noticed, you’d mount a siren and a flashing light. However, since that would look and sound silly, you make a childish excuse in a lame half-assed attempt to justify noise pollution and a giant middle finger to the rest of the drivers on the road.
How about a little logic? If loud pipes save lives, then there should be far fewer fatalities on obnoxious modified Harleys than there are on, for example, stock Goldwings. Does the data support that?
One of these days, I’m going to flip, and anybody who espouses this theory is going to be a target. It’ll be after another jackass biker rides by my house at 2 in the morning, or floors it passing my open window and making my ears bleed again. Didn’t save your useless life, did it, buddy? And if I’m ever (please, please, please let it happen!) on a jury of a murder trial where somebody ran over a biker for being obnoxious, he’s guaranteed to get off. Excessive? Not in my opinion. Bikers who believe this crap don’t give a shit about me, my safety, comfort, or ability to hear. They’re selfish jerks who think they don’t have to behave as a part of society, and in my opinion that means that society doesn’t owe them a damn thing.
as far as cops stoping learn and read up on or videos on u-tube .. south carolina state troopers under fed dot grant $… COPS stopping on i-95 ALL motorcycles ONLY SAFETY CHECK.only.at bike week… then writing them tickets for all things they can..now thats a $ maker…because everyone is going to fla., so south carolina wants some of it …all profit.. feds pay for stop cost..ticket pure profit… they know no one will fight it by coming back 1000′s of miles ..not worth it for some made up bull shit. equip. ticket. of say $50 .and new your state troopers does the same thing bike only under stopping ”gang’s ” but stops people on honda gold wings and sportbikes. and writes tickets..when was the last time you saw the ”angles ” were on touring hondas,bmw’s, or zx-10′s ….
no anger, i do not have loud pipes .. like i said if you stop for pipes and you will you MUST check and write for others thats all..so loud pipes is a in your face stop me , or hey hear me over here, im here, come and get me. ..yes on daytona after living 10 miles away and going to bike week/oct fest/races.for 34 years yes 90-95% do have open pipes.. thats why the locals want something done about it..there are 900,000 bikes plated in fla then throw in for 2 weeks 200,000 more inside a county and its not fun…me i do not care.. but some 80-90 year old in a car says otherwise…. if you never have been here you just can’t understand the 2 weeks of stop light broooooooom …like i say again i do not care..they come have fun leave $ kill them selves dispite loud pipes, and leave..and there are some cool bikes to boot and 99% are real fine people… .
Roy, I’m not sure how I let myself get off the subject of loud pipes, but if the law says they can’t be above a certain decible level, then yes, I’ll stop the violator. But if you think we do that so we can find every little thing wrong and write all of them…wow. Your anger is going to give you an ulcer someday. By the way, do you really think that 95% of the bikes going to Daytona are Harleys without mufflers? Ninety five out of every hundred bikes? There must not be an unbroken window in that part of Florida. LOL
vern i am not slaming anyone –come off the poor cop thing all i said was if your pulled over for loud pipes the cop WILL RUN A CHECK ,WILL WRITE FOR ANYTHING ELSE HE CAN its his JOB ..and if $ can be made he must do it .. or why stop the loud bike in the first place…at least they should it… they do in fla .it find the BAD GUYS. you see that box in the center of the car links them to all knowing box… now what your saying is you don’t run i.d.’s for osw’s ..yes i am saying you write tickets because you are told to its your job why the hell are you getting paid if you do not want to do your job..i am not slaming l.e. for not writeing tickets i am saying YOU WILL WRITE THEM IF YOU STOP FOR LOUD PIPES.. and you dam well know when the law goes into effect some one is going to tell you to stop and write them… just like the seat belt laws.. you cops allways think your being picked on, read my past post i am on your side..but maybe you just want to run the poor cop thing…over and over and over…let me wake you up ,people without a badge are on you side, we all are not your enemy..just because we do not have a shield.. get it now
Roy, I was going to let your rant go without comment, but decided I can’t do that. Clearly you are of the opinion that we write tickets because we are told to. Perhaps that is so for the officers who are lazy and don’t enforce laws unless their Sergeant is on their butt, but for the majority of officers, we write tickets to enforce safety laws. If you had ever had to spend hours investigating a collision where a family died because of the stupidity of just one other driver; if you ever had to tell a mother her son was dead in a traffic collision because he was showing off for his friends; if you ever had a fifteen month old toddler die in your arms because a street racer lost control and went through a yard…perhaps you might change your mind about why we write tickets. For over twenty years I’ve dealt with the results of stupidity on the roads. The mother who lets her three year old walk on the back seat while she’s driving ’cause it’s easier than instilling discipline in the child, then cries her eyes out when she slams on the brakes and the child is thrown forward into the windshield… Come on, Roy, don’t slam LEOs because they write tickets. Very few do it to be mean.
vern–1– NO to harrassed never..not one time then again i live in fla. we have 900,000 bikes plated on roads here, not even in my car ,when stopped for speeding ”i was speeding ”…2-..and loud pipes IS NOT NO PIPES. which h.d. riders seem to think it goes faster or something ??? with out anything.else done….3- is with loud pipe its just one more reason to stop you,[ if you can not hear them then you do not know they are near then you will not stop them ]…but when you stop them all checking is done ..all tickets on equp. is a go..or are you saying after the law is a go no one will enforce a money maker.or muffler ticket but no stop light working ….don’t think so…on traffic control there is a book to fill..so you will stop them….
Roy, I agree that California legislators will come up with anything they can to make more money for the land of fruits and nuts, but it sounded to me like you feel you’ve been unduly harrassed by the police in the past.
I said in a previous comment about loud pipes that I felt loud pipes were not lifesavers. And no, I am not a Harley hater…I ride a Harley Ultra Classic with stock pipes (though I am going to get after market pipes to get a better tone). The lifesaver aspect is not determined by how loud your bike is, but rather how alert you are as a rider. That is not just my belief. The MSF and Riders Edge and other training classes all state that the rider MUST be alert to what is going on. I know from many years experience as a rider (I’m a former motor officer) that your best safety device is your brain. Anticipate what others are going to do, then don’t be in front of them when they do it.
As far as your comment “hey cop, I am over here, come get me”… It doesn’t take loud pipes. We find stupid people everywhere, and I’ve even had them come up to me and say “Can you check and see if I have a warrant out for me?” and then get upset when I arrest them for the outstanding warrant discovered due to their request. Oh, well…
christ people get over this, loud pipes are done as soon as the calif law goes into effect, there to much $ to be made in tickets…why will you not understand this oh i know your all deaf from the loud pipes…then other states will see the $ to be made and follow.. stop for loud pipes, write for anything else they can while they are at it.. hey bad ass h.d. maybe even outstanding warrants… smart move ”hey cop i am over here come get me ”…
Aleta, sounds like you need a driving lesson or glasses. If we had to hear all the vehicles on the road instead of seeing them, I suspect the accident rate would go through the roof. In my opinion your just another Harley rider trying to justify the right to make noise for no better reason then being “seen” but not for any safety reasons.
My history is a carbon copy of your’s MCg. I like a quiet bike and will not infringe noise on others with the belief that “noise” will save me, I would prefer to rely on my experience and common sense to keep me safe. I think an accident can be happen with or without noise and that’s why it’s called an accident. Relying on noise to “maybe” save your hide is simply an absurd way of thinking…..
My feeling is that you can’t expect loud pipes to do anything for you if you are not a sensible rider. Loud pipes are not going to help a drunk! Loud pipes are NOT going to help irresponsible drivers. There is no panacea for people who do dumb things on their bikes. Yes, you might still get slammed in the back by a car, loud pipes or not.
But there are certain situations in which I know for a fact that drivers have heard me before they realized I was around them. They could not have possibly SEEN me due to shrubbery or the likes, but when they heard the loud rumble of my bike, they waited before moving out. I don’t like disturbing people with my loud bike and I don’t let it idle in my driveway for 5 minutes like my neighbor. I try to be sensitive to the feelings of others. I get going and get out of my neighborhood. I don’t ride around and around in circles driving people crazy.
I’ve only ridden a few years, my brother forever! He’s had too many bikes to count over the years as he owned a motorcycle shop for many years. He’s had the small ones and the big ones. He, too, is convinced that loud pipes save lives (not ALL the time, but much of the timel) I will stay on the safe side and take that extra precaution.
I don’t see how anyone can dispute the fact that loud pipes do save lives and prevent accidents…maybe not ALL the time, but they certainly give you the edge. The other day I nearly ran into a small, quiet motorcycle that was too closely following a very large truck as I was making a left hand turn. I didn’t SEE him and certainly didn’t HEAR him. Had it been a Harley or some such big bike, I would have heard the rumble which would have alerted me. I know for a fact that as I have approached cars backing out (I ride a Harley), they have heard me first before they saw me. Conversely, when I am parked & starting to back out and can’t SEE a motorcycle, I can HEAR the big ones approaching, even though I don’t yet see a thing. THAT alerts me! This is just common sense. We use all our senses when we are on the road, not just visual. Who doesn’t hear a siren approaching even though they can’t see the ambulance?? When you DO hear that siren, you start looking. Same with a loud bike. I, for one, want the extra advantage of loud pipes. Crotch rockets, my MSF coach declared, shouldn’t even BE on the road. He said they are meant to race. I think they are just too small to see in certain situations and too darned quiet. I certainly respect those who ride them…but don’t think they are safe for highway riding. Just my opinion! Oh Phil Griffiths, that’s a funny one!
i live near and have worked in daytona bch fl, for the last 34 years, during bike week/oct fest 90% h.d. show.. why are 95% of the bikes going down are unmuffled h.d.’s … loud pipes did not save the loud drunks from falling over, loud pipes did not save them from getting hit in the rear by cars at a light or even moving, loud pipes did not save them from cars turning left into the front of them..?????…any ideas anyone..