Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?

by: MCg

Do Loud Motorcycle Pipes Save Lives?THE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.

However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.

The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”

As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.

What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.

Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)

Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).

Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring

My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80′s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).

Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.

So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?

Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”

But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.

The Truth, or Not?

So, what is the truth?

Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?

What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.

However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.

Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.

In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.

Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?

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Comments

690 Responses to “Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?”
  1. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    My goodness, “Ray—moan”….”a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars”….touche!…what a comeback!  lol

    Well now, let’s just see WHY you would mistake “ME”, for one of your lying, toothless, inbred, liberal relatives…

    “Lying idiot”, you charge?

    Please show me which statement I made about WHY I think obama was born IN Kenya is a “lie”…is it…

    His “author bio” that he wrote, which stood… as published…  through two RE-WRITES for SIXTEEN YEARS! …then rewrote, again?

    The TWO RECORDED statements by his grandmother?

    The TWO major African newspapers that stated his ORIGIN OF BIRTH to be KENYA…in several stories…over several years?

    The VIDEO TAPED, Kenyan ambassador’s GLEEFULLY PROUD statements about the KENYAN BORN obama being elected president of the United States?

    The VIDEO TAPED speech where Michelle “Give-the-kid-a-carrot-the-Twinkies-are-MINE!” obama, slipped up and referred to KENYA as “barrack’s homeland”?

    Tell me, Doug…just what “proof” do you have to disprove ANY of those FACTS, that are, or WERE easily verifiable with a simple “Google” or “You Tube” search?

    Hmmm….is that crickets I hear, Rain Man?….”a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars!’  LOL….

    Now, while I didn’t originate ANY of these FACTS…and…while there are certainly plenty of people, especially dishonest liberal democrats, like you, who practically have seizures at the MERE mention of ANY of these FACTS, still, these FACTS are in the public domain, and I have heard the recordings, read the publicly printed newspaper articles, or seen the videos of them.

    I have also read plenty of  the flimsy denials of obama supporters on each and every one of these things.  They are ALWAYS weak, requiring tremendous amounts of “faith” that obama, and his supporters just “misspoke”, “made an editing error”, “verified the evidence”, or that “the courts upheld” this or that claim by obama…

    Now, while ANYTHING is possible, and all of that VERY long list of “coincidences” COULD have occurred, the odds of ALL those things…and others… simply being a “coincidence” are ASTRONOMICAL…except for ONE…and that is the totally FALSE claim that “courts have upheld” obama’s claims.  THAT is a total lie, and NOT ONE court has ruled IN FAVOR of obama in ANY of these cases, INCLUDING the suspicious claim that his “birth certificate” is real…though NEVER presented in physical form to ANY court, in ANY case, in ANY state…at ANY level…amazing!

    THAT has NEVER happened, in fact, NOT ONE lawsuit has even been ALLOWED to be heard IN COURT, due to EVERY SINGLE case being ruled as the plaintiff “not having standing” to file the law suit…which is incredible on it’s face, as, when Allan Keyes was opposing obama, and filed suit, claiming obama was ineligible to be on the ballot, even HE was ruled as “not having standing to sue”…so, an opponent has “no standing” to challenge obama…no attorney of any state “has standing” to challenge obama…no law enforcement official, such as a sheriff, “has standing” to challenge obama…and certainly no private citizen “has standing” to challenge whether or not obama might be required to PROVE he is eligible to run for, or hold the office of the presidency…pretty alarming stuff, wouldn’t you say?…oh wait…being a lying democrat, you people NEVER want anyone else to have a say in anything, right?

    Well, if you can’t back up your dishonest assertions of “lying” on my part…makes you look kind of bad, Doug..like maybe your sisters “baby bump” really IS yours…lol

    And…since you flatteringly INSIST that I DO “prove” things “far more eloquently than i ever could”… how can your claim that I am an “idiot” be true…I mean…you have such a “HIGH I.Q”. and all…my God, man…it’s ALMOST triple digits, isn’t it? 

    Hmmm….seems like another LIE slipping out there, Rain Man….tsk, tsk, tsk…now, what do you think Judge Wapner would DO to you, if he caught you LYING to HIM?…well, it just wouldn’t be pretty, that’s all

    Anyway…aren’t you tired of all this bickering?…let’s call a “truce”…I promise to not attack you anymore…and you promise to stop your dishonest, liberal lying… keep your hands out of your sisters panties… not harass any more female posters to this thread that just might LIKE “loud pipes”…and vote the straight Republican ticket through the next three presidential elections…seems fair to me.  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.  HAMMER UPDATE:…I actually made a SINCERE effort to “tone down” my Victory’s exhaust noise, and NOT annoy my whiny, rice-cake-eating neighbor, yesterday .

    I spent a great deal of time, and some intense physical effort, to fashion two, highly efficient, “Thunder Monster” type  baffles for my mufflers. 

    It seems that the custom “Texas Chain Saw Massacre” modification to them has created sound waves of such seismic magnitude that my “light in the loafers” democrat neighbor…”Robin…with a Y”… CLAIMS the recent HUGE  cracks in his house’s foundation are MY fault!…freaking, liberals…it’s ALWAYS something!

    Anyway, I fashioned, and meticulously installed the baffles, and “Robin…with a Y”, was very pleased as I waved and quietly rode off.

    Unfortunately, the damn caramel melted and the popcorn blew out before I even made it to the freakin’ stop sign!…oh well.  lol

    L.P.S.L!

  2. doug s. says:

    thank you danno, for proving in your own words, far more eloquently than i ever could, what a lying idiot you really are. ;~)

  3. Vern Rosa says:

    Cinco de Juno??? That is hilarious!

  4. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…Rain Man…truly pathetic.  Another “a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars” denial…SHEESH!

    Okay…from the hip, but shooting fast and straight…AS ALWAYS…here goes….

    You know…you’re simply NO GOOD at this…you offer nothing new, or already NOT disproven….basically just a dishonest, liberal, political masochist that seems to enjoy a steady diet of “political ass kicking”…lol

    Your mental capacity of “debate” is the equivalent of a little, anemic, “pinko” Sears moped at Daytona Bike Week…wimpy, and underpowered!  lol

    Your ability to stay focused and argue a point is comparable to a hilarious You Tube video…”The Worst Scooter Driver Ever!…check it out.  lol

    “But, as far as obama…for the totally uninitiated… I will say it one more time….”I report…You decide!”  lol

    I say obama was born in Kenya, because…

    obama, himself claimed…with much pride…that he was born in Kenya…and was a “citizen of the world”…he made these claims ALL HIS LIFE, even in his written “author bio” used to sell his books…and personally updated AFTER his Illinois congressional race win, AND his Illinois senate seat victory. 

    He ONLY changed his story when the lying democrats finally recognized that he was NOT legal to run for the presidency….THEN he changed it, and all the excuses started being circulated as to how this “mistake” could be stated over and over, and sit there in printed stories,  for all those years, and no one “notice” it….not obama…not Michelle…not his  terrorist, bomb planting buddy,  Bill Ayers…no one, except the Clintons…and they made a “party compromise” to ignore it, and used one of Saul Alinsky’s tricks of “misdirection” by coming out with a written statement that “John McCain’s NATIONALITY will NOT be challenged”….interesting, eh?…because Hillary THOUGHT obama didn’t have a chance of beating her, and even the lying Clintons are terrified of ,,,DUM DE DUM DUM….”the race card!”…and, as always, Hillary was WRONG!…such is the power of a corrupt, liberal main stream mass media in elections.

    obama’s own grandmother said he was born in Kenya…and that she was there during his birth…she made this statement twice.

    The Kenyan ambassador to the U. N. gleefully celebrated the FACT that a KENYAN was elected to the presidency of the United States…his story abruptly changed a few days later, when democrat operatives got the word out to STOP admitting to obama’s nationality…it would ruin ALL THEIR SOCIALIST PLANS!

    The TWO major African newspapers reported…for years…that obama WAS a NATIVE BORN Kenyan…and THAT storyline was also squelched soon after it was verified that obama…as a NATIVE BORN Kenyan…could NOT serve as president of the United States…ALL references to obama’s true nationality were sought out, and attempts to erase them were made, including removing ALL such news reports and stories from their archives…or at least, locking them away in some secret location….probably Hawaii.  lol

    Michelle Obama, in a speech to the degenerate LGBT last year, absentmindedly referred to Kenya, as “obama’s HOMELAND”

    There are numerous other examples pointing out the FACT that obama WAS born in Kenya.

    The ONLY “proof” that he was not born in Kenya is a computer image of an obviously doctored,  photo copied “document”…NOTHING real or PHYSICAL…although obama claims the actual, physical document exists…he refuses to produce it for expert scrutiny…. the ONLY other “proof” is obama’s “word”…and we ALL know how “truthful” THAT is, don’t we?….”PERIOD!”.

    Like him or despise him (I won’t say which side I’m on! lol )…the FACT is, obama WAS born in Kenya.

    I won’t even address the rest of your sad, anemic, “rehash” of your past lies, and distortions…I’ve done it enough, and you…being a liberal… are of such low character, and totally devoid of integrity, that all you do is regurgitate your same false statements, and totally invalid denials.

    You’re a sad example of true political brain washing, Doug.

    BUT….it’s a beautiful day here in Michigan, so enough time wasted on YOU….AND, in celebration of MY just declared, “national holiday”…Cinco de Juno…it’s time to …..

    “Get your motor runnin’….Head out on the highway….Looking for adventure…In whatever comes our way….BORN TO BE WILDDDDDDDDD!”  LOL

    “The Hammer” says, “Ride Safe and Ride Loud!”…OINK!  OINK!  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  5. doug s. says:

    dan, when you ask: “why did i say…” when i NEVER said what you say i said, then it is clear you have no ability to read and comprehend english.

    or, you purposely pick and choose words out of whole sentences to change the meaning of what i am saying. and you say *i* am the liar. haha!

    dan, i never said there was any mention of gay rights in the constitution. you are lying when you say that i did. i *did* say that the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness means that gays should have the same rights of everyone else. are you truly so stupid that you cannot tell the difference? tell me dan, where in the constitution does it say motorcycle pipes can be as loud as anyone wants them to be? and you say *i* am the liar. haha!

    yes, dani, i believe the constitution does allow you the right to own automatic weapons – as i said. but, dan, there was no such thing as automatic weapons when the constitution was written, so where does this right come from? there is no ranting on my part, just acknowledging the simple fact that the right to bear arms means just that. when the constitution was written, it applied to the state of the art regarding “arms”. it did not restrict this right to, say, only pistols. or only small caliber arms. any law that prohibits a private citizen the right to own an automatic weapon or rpg or a cruise missile that is passed w/o an amendment to the constitution, is unlawful, imo. this is no rant, no “amateurish, dishonest, liberal way of trying to throw people off”. in fact, it is honest; a strict conservative interpretation of the constitution. your distractions, your distortions, your obfuscations, your lies do not change this fact. and you say *i* am the liar. haha!

    when you continue, over and over, to repeat the same lies, (i.e.:”anti American, Kenyan Mau Mau, obama”), it is clear that you believe if you lie enough, people will start to believe. and you say i am a liar – haha!

    it is clear that when you continue to misrepresent what i say, you either do not understand english, are a liar, or both. (i suspect it is both.) and you say *i* am the liar. haha!

    i am done attempting to discuss w/the likes of you – it is a futile exercise to argue with someone not interested in what another person is actually trying to say. when someone is only interested in misinterpreting, lying, ignoring and distracting, it is not possible to have meaningful dialog. like the saying goes, i am done wrestling with pigs, i am only getting dirty and the pigs like it.

  6. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES

    Jeez…another day, another deliberate law violation by the anti American, Kenyan Mau Mau, obama…with no consultations with congress, as is REQUIRED BY LAW…letting FIVE of his murderous brother muslims go, to go back and plan and carryout more terrorist attacks, and murder more people….any people actually think these kinds of screw ups by obama aren’t deliberate?…yeah, right….keep sucking on that gigantic jug of obama Kool-Aide.

    Rain Man, you really should stick to “A hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars.”…anything else and you just step in another pile of your lying, liberal democrat bullshit.

    Doug, you say…”dan – you’re right – there’s no mention of gay rights in the constitution….”

    So…why did you LIE and say that there was?

    Doug, you say:  “and danny boy, i know all about the constitution, and constitutional law,….”

    So…why did you LIE and say the Constitution said ANYTHING about gay rights?

    Doug, you say”…”… anyone who is interested in what the founding fathers meant simply has to read what they said about the constitution;”…

    So, Doug….since it interested you so much in college, and you’ve done so much reading, and you are implying something that IS NOT THERE….show me ONE reference by ANY Founding Father, in ANY of their writings….that speaks to “gay rights”…just one…or admit that there are NONE…in ALL the reading you did of “what the Founding Fathers ‘meant”…admit that, because all you LYING liberals WISH it was there, and you LIE and try to TRICK people into believing that it’s in there…but, there is NO mention of gay rights…NONE!…you made it up…and therefore you have lied…AGAIN… and ARE, therefore…A LIAR..

    Doug, you say:  “… but, i guess they were just a bunch of lying liberals, with false declarations that are deliberately dishonest, “spun” interpretations of OTHER statements, in OTHER places…NOT THE CONSTITUTION! Those founding fathers are ALL dishonest, deliberate, liberal misrepresentations of “what the Founding Fathers meant” to allow”

    No, Doug…the Founding Fathers were NOT dishonest, lying, liberals.  Dishonest, lying liberals, like YOU, can never keep a single, honorable idea in your head long enough to come up with such a divinely inspired, all encompassing, truthful manifestation of the God given rights of people.  You dishonest liberal democrats are too busy trying to take control of every single freedom, choice, thought, or action…OF EVERYONE!… that you end up with a monstrosity that no one can clearly read or understand, and requires the reader to jump back and forth to refer to “this paragraph”, and “that paragraph”, and “this chart”, and “that chart”…as your dishonest democrat party did with the illegal nightmare of obama-care.

    Oh…and that part about “LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”…yep, THAT pretty much covers it all…NO NEED for any “special” privileges for your liberal democrat “pet groups”, where you hypocrites do anything you can to lie, cheat, and STEAL more uninformed votes with your phony “war on…”, just fill in the blanks.

    Your ending was a bit of a rant…but pretty much true.

    I am as honest or more so, than anyone you’re related to…will ever meet, or have met….the circle of “jerks”…get it?..lol…that would even accept your presence precludes ANY type of honesty from being allowed….standard behavior for lying, liberal democrats.

    I am not  “all knowing”…but I can sure see through your sorry, belligerent, line of dishonest liberal bullshit…and that’s what bothers liars like YOU, the Clintons,  and obama…we see right through you disgusting bastards…because you have no real character…we can read you like a book….and we tell people just EXACTLY what you are doing…or are GOING to do…despite all your double talk, lies, and shucking and jiving…it just doesn’t work on people like me.

    I am the “Windex” to the “dirty window” of your lying, liberal…democrat…soul.  lol

    You say you don’t like obama…you voted for him twice..in previous posts you’ve claimed that he’s done a good job….I’d say your actions speak much more loudly than your present double talking, tap dancing “denials”….that makes you a liar.

    The Constitution DOES allow individuals to own automatic weapons…it is the federal government that now restricts their ownership, and places a very high tax on that ownership…but, despite what most people think, you can still own them.  The rest of your rant about “cruise missiles, nukes, whatever” is just your amateurish, dishonest, liberal way of trying to throw people off…like obama CONSTANTLY does…by simulating being sarcastic, and is not worth responding to…other than a good ol’ “bitch slapping”.   lol

    You’re too dishonest to admit it Doug…but you are a liar…have been, pretty much, since your first post…in fact, probably since your very FIRST WORDS!  lol

    Okay, Rain Man…time for Judge Wapner….go sit down.

    Now….LOUD PIPES STORY!….

    I had a little “run in” with the local police recently….due to “loud pipes”…

    I had just used my new fuel control tuner to “fine tune” the Night Train.  I went out to a local road that had been built, a few years back,  in anticipation of a highly contested, gambling casino building project.  The bottom line is that the corrupt politician…a democrat…that tried to sneak the deal through “back door” channels…most probably with a HUGH bribe for him, got discovered, and the shaky deal fell through…leaving a wonderful, two mile stretch of almost perfect, four lanes wide, curvy concrete…in the middle of “nowhere”…with almost NO TRAFFIC…and NO POSTED SPEED LIMIT SIGNS!   

    It’s perfect for quarter mile type “ripping” through the gears, AND, because of the wide, sweeping turns…and the “grippy”, smooth concrete…you can keep your speed up and really do some exciting “peg dragging” leaning around the turns…AND, since they included concrete curbs along the entire length, except for two anticipated spots for the failed casino driveways…which you can easily see from both ends of the road…there is NO place for the police to get over the curbs and hide…it’s great!  lol

    Anyway, I had just done a couple of wide open blasts through the gears, topping out around 105 mph…with a little throttle left over… before I had to shutdown and turn around for my return “blasts”…all the while being closely watched by a flock of about twenty Canadian Geese, floating around on one of the two drainage ponds that were part of the casino project.

    While  I was circling around and preparing for another run,  I saw a local cop car turn onto the far end of the road.  Sure enough, as he approached my position, his flashing lights came on, so  I pulled over and parked. 

    As he approached me, he said, “I heard you winding her out…that WAS you right?…is that your bike?”…to which I replied…”Yes sir, officer…that was me.  I just tuned up my bike to try to eliminate a slight ‘miss’, and some deceleration “popping”, and was testing it…you’re not going to give me a ticket are you?”

    He replied, “No, you’re fine…can I see your license and registration, please?”

    I replied, “Certainly…and I want you to know that I AM a CCW permit holder, but, I am NOT carrying any weapons right now”…as this is REQUIRED information to let the police know about during any contact with them.

    He smiled and said, “Thank you…you sure you haven’t forgotten anything in one of your pockets?”…I chucked and said, “Nope…I’m clean!”

    While the officer was in his car, “running” my information, another police car pulled up…with his lights ALSO flashing…it was beginning to look like a “big deal”! lol

    The second officer gave a little wave to the officer in the car, and approached me.  He closely examined my Night Train, and asked, “Is everything okay?”

    I said, “Yes, everything’s fine…I was just doing a little fuel controller testing…out here in the middle of nowhere!  lol”

    Well, THAT opened the doors to all types of questions…about my Night Train…about the fuel controller…my new MIchelin Commander tires…where I lived…how long I had been in the area…did I know “this guy”, or “that guy”, etc, etc, etc.

    Turns out, THIS officer was a Harley owner…and a member of the local Clinton Township, Harley Owners Group chapter….lol

    By now, the first officer had seen what an absolutely STELLAR citizen…with IMPECCABLE credentials… he had been fortunate enough to encounter, and returned with my license, registration, and proof of insurance cards.

    They informed me that there has been a large in flow of biker “one per centers”…next to lying liberals, the worst of the worst… into the area, and illegal drug busts have increased dramatically.

    I replied that they were obviously obama supporters…and there’s too many of THEM in this state already…so keep up the good work!  lol

    We all had a pretty good laugh…then they had to go…smiles and hand shakes were exchanged all around…all in all a very pleasant encounter….and all because the officer heard my “loud pipes”. 

    As I fired up the Night Train, in a fine state of tune…and reveled in the deep, melodious reverberations of the “Sreamin’ Eagle” slip on mufflers,…I clicked her into second gear and started to move off….and it came to me…

    “Gee…you meet the nicest people on a HARLEY!”…LOL

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.  Great history lesson, Rick…thanks…but,  I think you missed the mark on Doug…I don’t think  he’s a homo…I think he suffers from a FAR WORSE  perversion… LIBERALISM!…and I don’t think he’s in  Vermont….I think he’s just like the SECOND worst lying, liberal democrat president of all time, Jimmy Carter….in the  South…but  just “ate up” with dishonest, liberal stupidity. lol

  7. Rick L says:

    Well Dan, when I made my original post to Doug, I said I would not respond to any of his follow ups because I like to deal in facts and he likes to deal in fantasy , so it is a waste of valuable time. That said I will always respond to a brother like you though.

    You are correct I live in the bluest of all blue states, and have to fight the good fight every day. The irony of living in Massachusetts and things people outside of Mass don’t realize is the history of the Conservative movement in my state. Obviously a large percentage of the founding fathers were from Mass. The original protest against the crown originated in Mass, with the Tea Party (I laugh every time a liberal misses the reason why that name was adopted for the modern day resistance, TEA = Taxed Enough Already, the same protest the founding father had), the public protest that lead to the first patriot being shot by the crown. Those are the things everyone knows about. Now for something few know, the reason the second amendment exist is because the contingent from Massachusetts to the continental congress held out approving the Constitution until it was added. Their reasoning was that we will reach a point in this country when people will not have the intelligence to understand what “inalienable rights” mean. If you read some of the early writings by them and other contingents their concern was that people would think that the Constitution or the government give us our rights, when in reality they wrote the Bill of Rights just to make it clear that the government can’t give us rights, because those rights are ours already and they superseded all governments. The Constitution was written to define the government’s rights, not the rights of the people. The rest of the continental congress thought they were being foolish to think people could be that stupid… How is that for irony, now that Massachusetts leads the attack on our rights.

    As for Doug, I will explain him by bringing up something I am sure you also did as a kid. When I was a kid my friends and I would sit outside and wait for a car to go by. We would turn our backs or close our eyes and guess at what type of car it was based on the sound of the exhaust. We actually got quite good at this and probably guessed right upwards of 75% of the time. Well living where I do I have developed a talent like that when it comes to liberals. Based on their arguments and lack of reason I can usually guess where they are from and what type of liberal they are. Doug is not very good and was a little challenging until his last post. You know it was easy to pick out a Shelby Cobra from the sound or Big Block Corvette and most Mopar products had that distinctive tick tick of the hydraulic lifters, unfortunately much like my bike, but if a run of the mill old crappy car went by there was nothing distinctive to pick up on, Doug is the old crappy car with nothing original or distinctive. Then he showed his hand and it all became clear. Don’t take this personal Doug, just a game I like to play. The fact that your argument went where it did like a laser shot, I am guessing you are gay. You are not happy about being gay and probably dislike yourself for it. You therefore attack the people you blame for making you feel guilty about being gay, conservatives. A little advice, get over it, not a big deal and there are professionals that can help you with that, especially here in the northeast. I’m also guessing you are in the northeast, probably Vermont, but possibly you could be from the Portland area of Maine also, but not likely. Going through life like that is not healthy and can lead to terrible outcomes, so I strongly suggest you seek help for it, not to fix being gay, just to fix you not accepting it…

    Seeing as it was brought up, I guess I now have to respond to it. I don’t appreciate Doug’s bigoted response to me, assuming I have certain beliefs without me ever having voice my opinion on the subject, of course once he made that attack I fully understood why. So Doug I will clarify it for you, who you sleep with is none of my business, as long as it is a consenting adult and as long as it doesn’t cost me any money. Go for it, live your life as you choose, do what makes you happy. I think all people should do that, with one stipulation I don’t want to pay for it. If your choices lead to living on the street broke, drunk and stupid, too bad you should have made better choices. If your choices lead you to living with another man, who cares quite frankly, just don’t force it upon me. Don’t try to force me to change what I believe and what my church teaches. You have the right to do what you want, but so don’t I and your rights stop at my door step and my wallet. See Doug, you know nothing about me and I have no idea what I believe. And don’t waste your time responding with your repetitive dribble, I have fought these fight with liberals far better at than you will ever be. With them I can actually reap some enjoyment from it, with you all I reap from it is pity for you…

  8. doug s. says:

    dan – you’re right – there’s no mention of gay rights in the constitution. just as there’s no mention of women’s rights. just as there’s no mention of the rights of motorcyclists to have loud pipes. but there is that pesky little thing about the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. can’t have it both ways, danno. ;~)

    and danny boy, i know all about the constitution, and constitutional law, it was one of my interests in college. anyone who is interested in what the founding fathers meant simply has to read what they said about the constitution; there’s plenty of documents written by them, explaining what they meant. but, i guess they were just a bunch of lying liberals, with false declarations that are deliberately dishonest, “spun” interpretations of OTHER statements, in OTHER places…NOT THE CONSTITUTION! Those founding fathers are ALL dishonest, deliberate, liberal misrepresentations of “what the Founding Fathers meant” to allow… ;~)

    doug s.,
    the lying liar, just like all liberals. as stated by the all-knowing 100% honest truthteller dan. even tho i don’t like barack, dan says i do, so i must be lying and dan must be telling the truth.

    ps – i happen to believe that the constitution allows every individual to own automatic weapons, rpg’s, tanks, cruise missiles, nukes, whatever. any law passed to restrict those rights is unconstitutional, and america needs a constitutional amendment to make it legal. the founding fathers’ intent was to allow citizens to own the latest s.o.t.a. weaponry available.

  9. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES! 

    My goodness!…miss a day to bag a few more sets of ear drums, and the obama peg-boy “pink brigade” takes over…NO WAY JOSE!…(and check his green card, officer!  lol)

    Did anyone see the gory ending of the “trial by combat” fight on Sunday’s “Game of Thrones” episode?  Riding my “ground pounding” Hammer, with my custom “Texas Chain Saw Massacre” modified exhaust, CAN have a similar effect on unsuspecting bystanders…it’s awesome!  lol

    Now, to the issue at hand….in a previous post, Paul has stated:

    “The average motorcycle has a sound output of 100 decibels (dB), which, is the equivalent of you hearing a jet take off from 300ft away. Basically the average motorcycle is f***ing LOUD so on the average bike a loud pipe is not necessary for safety. Now if you have a very quiet bike you should do one (or two) of two things, (a) Get a louder bike you pussy or (b) be cautious when riding. I honestly do not think that loud pipes should be banned but some restrictions would be nice. Nobody like a prick with a obnoxiously loud bike!”…or a Hershey Bar melted all over his hands!  lol

    Okay, okay…I DID add that last “qualifier” to Paul’s post …I confess!…the jury is to ignore that last statement.  lol

    I certainly don’t mean to pick on Paul, since I think his motives are genuine…and anyone who advocates to “Get a louder bike you pussy…” can ride with me any day!.  lol

    However, before his statement that “The average motorcycle has a sound output of 100 decibels (db), which, is the equivalent of you hearing a jet take off from 300ft away.”, is given any further credence and accepted as a fact, I feel it must be addressed.

    First off…just what survey, poll, or industry research concluded that the AVERAGE of ALL motorcycles produces an “average” of 100 decibels?…WHERE did THAT “statistic” come from?…who did the measurements, and from what distance?  No manufacturer produces a new motorcycle with stock exhausts anywhere near those decibel levels, and even the majority of riders who do choose after market exhausts, do not choose the “obnoxiously loud” pipes.

    While well meaning, I would wager that that “number” is about as accurate as obama’s deliberately false promise of “1200 shovel ready projects that can start tomorrow”…it was fictitious, made up. ..and untrue.   

    Now, in Paul’s case, I doubt it is meant to deliberately mislead, as he most likely has no dishonest, ulterior motive…unlike the totally dishonest, lying obama,  who was simply after more HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to pay off his political cronies…and admitted a year later that “there never were 1200 shovel ready projects”, yet all the millions of taxpayer dollars obama stole, are gone, vanished…kaput!…another LIE added to “The Mad Mau Mau’s” incomparable total.

    I also question the second part of Paul’s statement, which compares a 100 decibel motorcycle exhaust to “a jet taking off from 300ft away”.

    Now, I have “some” personal knowledge of “hearing a jet take off from 300ft away”, as I spent thirty seven years in aviation, both military and civilian, flying jets of various sizes, and can attest that, in NO CASE did I EVER observe…from 300ft, or even farther… a jet taking off that would not EASILY exceed that “100 decibel” number.  Now while I admit that I had no decibel meter taking readings,  I DO have a pretty good APPROXIMATE knowledge of what a 100 decibel sound level is, and that is WHY I actually had my own BELOVED, 2003 Harley Davidson, 100th Anniversary Edition, Night TraIn, with “Screamin’ Eagle” exhaust, tested by police…it was “loud”…but, ONLY 92 decibels while idling, and 97 when running at 2500 rpm, and measured from 25 feet away, and at a 45 degree angle…which were the tests the officer said would be used, if in doubt about a “potential violation”.

    So, again, I am not picking on Paul…I just want to clarify that his statement should not be taken as some kind of “written in stone” fact…it is, at best, a personal estimate.

    For Rick,  my red blooded American “brother”, fighting the good fight, in a very blue, dishonest liberal state, I will add:

    The post addressed to you is laughable, except that it shows the deep, bitter, misguided, obsessive, INTENT of modern day liberals to totally destroy the ACTUAL words, and meaning, of the Founding Fathers written statements….it is constant, and never ending…24/7, 365…they seek the total destruction of the very fabric of America….no rules, no standards…anything goes…except for what is actually WRITTEN by OUR brave Founding Fathers, who KNEW EXACTLY what they wanted, and very ably PUT IT IN WRITING!…i.e.  the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the RIGHT to KEEP and BEAR arms, among others.

    The following statements from that dishonest post, are “interesting”, I suppose, in a Noam Chomsky, Ward Churchill, Barney Frank-ish, sort of way…but, are irrational and untrue:

    “…now, supporting gay rights is certainly something that follows the conservative strict constructionist constitutional view,…”

    “…but this is *EXACTLY* how our founding fathers wanted it – they wanted a living breathing document. something that would follow the intent of the constitution, while allowing for growth in human awareness, consciousness, experience.”

    “…why is it the “conservatives” that are so opposed to gay rights, when the constitution says they should have the exact same rights as heterosexuals? ”

    Now, back to Truth, Justice, and the American Way!….lol

    There is NO mention of “gay rights” in the Constitution, nor in the Bill of Rights…nor is there any mention of allowing the deliberate dismemberment of a human fetus as being allowed so as to…somehow…protect an imaginary “right to privacy”…NOR is there any statement that says there must be a “separation of church and state”.  ALL of these false declarations are deliberately dishonest, “spun” interpretations of OTHER statements, in OTHER places…NOT THE CONSTITUTION!

    Those are ALL dishonest, deliberate, liberal misrepresentations of “what the Founding Fathers meant” to allow….as this dishonest poster falsely claims, with his “gay rights” misstatements, disengenuousness….LIES!

    One wonders, are these the types of lessons the false “professor” obama taught in his “constitution” classes?…and was the poster a pupil of his?….it would explain a LOT! 

    To my knowledge, there are no “special rights” set aside for any sexual perversions in the Constitution, be they homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, or “probing the depths” of your new Hoover vacuum cleaner, in a purely salacious manner….as I’m sure some perverted liberal democrat…somewhere…is probably doing right now…but, I’m SURE the lying liberal democrats are looking to bring ALL those types of sexual proclivities into some form of ludicrous “special class” for an expensive, and drawn out legal battle…they’re lying, dishonest, bitter, misguided, liberal democrats…that’s what they do.

    The true legacy of the despicable Clintons…BOTH “Slick Willie” and Hillary’…is that EVERYTHING is political now.  Modern day liberals try to dishonestly tie EVERYTHING to some false, easy to jump on POLITICAL “band wagon’”symbol, i.e.  man made global warming…war on women…gay rights…and the always popular, “IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN!”…the very epitome of dishonest hypocrisy.

    Do SOME bikers have “obnoxiously loud’ pipes?…absolutely YES!, as I have agreed from the beginning.

    Should dishonest, power hungry, liberal bureaucrats…and it’s ALWAYS lying, liberal democrats…. be allowed to take even MORE freedom of choice away from us,…as the “king-wanna-be” obama has done with his totally disastrous obama-care tax, and his new job killing, industry destroying, utility rate skyrocketing, gestapo EPA regulations….by allowing them to write more and more, never ending “noise limitation” restrictions, in an attempt to silence the small minority of bikers with “obnoxiously loud” pipes?…I think NOT!

    As the disapproval of these “obnoxiously loud” biker’s  riding “buddies” will, sooner or later, persuade them to “turn down the volume”, sales of the excessively loud pipes will drop off, and the MARKET will decide…NOT power hungry, liberal democrat bureaucrats…what we can buy.

    EVERYTHING is political these days…EVERYTHING!…and this dishonest, confused poster,  clearly shows the never ending struggle of dishonest liberals and their continuous assault on our morals, standards of acceptable behavior, and America’s sacred document…The Constitution…clearly demonstrating that fact…and SHOULD act as a WARNING to keep these bitter, twisted, anti-American people OUT of ALL political offices.

    Do loud pipes save lives?….did obama win “The Liar of the Year” award?…..HELL YES! 

    P.S. While I realize that the dishonest poster was addressing Rick, and not me, directly…still…vigilance MUST be maintained! ANY liberal LIES that are left to stand, CAN, and WILL be taken as “acceptance” by these unscrupulous, dishonest, liberal democrats…and MUST be “nipped in the bud”…or something as seemingly “innocent” as a young half breed boy born in Kenya, COULD…with the help of a totally dishonest, liberal mass media… through enough lies, covering up, and treachery, end up in the very White House!…yep…trust me….it COULD happen!

  10. doug s. says:

    paul – wazzup? you think you are allowed to post something on topic? ;~)

    doug s.

    ps – i agree w/your comments exactly

  11. doug s. says:

    thanks, rick, for proving how lame you and your ilk are. thanks, i know the dictionary definition of what liberal and conservative mean, when referencing the constitution. which is why it’s so lame when “liberal” and “conservative” also have more than one meaning, per the dictionary. which is why it’s so lame when “conservatives” are so wanting to change the constitution, but say they aren’t.

    i guess you are gonna tell me all the things i previously listed that i don’t like about barack are things that make him “liberal”.
    i guess you are now gonna tell me it’s the “liberals” who twisted the constitution to give corporations the rights of people, and these “liberals” are “leftist = democrats = nitwits”. ;~)

    regarding liberal and conservative having other meanings, outside the constitution – now, i do know that in *some* instances, barack is liberal, when it comes to human rights, but conservative when it comes to following the constitution. like equal rights for gays. other definitions of conservative, besides the strict constitutional construction definition are:
    - favouring the preservation of established customs, values, etc, and opposing innovation.
    - a person who is reluctant to change or consider new ideas; conformist.
    - believing in the value of established and traditional practices in society.

    now, supporting gay rights is certainly something that follows the conservative strict constructionist constitutional view, but not at all the other conservative definitions – those regarding new ideas, established practice, vales, customs, etc. but this is *EXACTLY* how our founding fathers wanted it – they wanted a living breathing document. something that would follow the intent of the constitution, while allowing for growth in human awareness, consciousness, experience. it is you “extreme conservative (probably a fascist) = republican = nitwit” types that are trying to pervert the constitution, playing fast an loose with your “definitions”. subverting the constitution to press your neanderthal agenda.

    why is it the “conservatives” that are so opposed to gay rights, when the constitution says they should have the exact same rights as heterosexuals? it is questions like these, rick that turn your “dictionary definition” on its head and show how lame your argument is. and the answers are simple – the truth is most “conservatives” are conservative according to the dictionary definition that has nothing to do with the constitution, and are just as happy to throw the constitution under the bus, as anyone else, when it comes to what they want.

    rick, you say:
    “Conservatives in the US = People on the right = supporters of the Constitution”

    conservatives may or may not be “people on the right”. but “people on the right” are certainly not supporters of the constitution. maybe they were sometime in america’s past, but certainly not today.

    i don’t need to be “educated” by idiots who talk out of both sides of their mouths, and make up stuff to suit their agenda..

  12. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL..”liberals”…”pervert”….yeah…I’d say that first sentence of yours pretty much sums up the political situation in America these days, Rain Man.

    However, let’s examine the rest of your totally incorrect statement about the “Citizens United” ruling…

    You say…” i guess that explains the supreme court’s citizen’s united ruling where the court decided that corporations have the same rights as people”…

    WRONG!….The whole lawsuit came about because LIBERAL Federal Election Commission rulings in previous cases ALLOWED the detestable Michael Moore to advertise and show his totally dishonest, anti President Bush, campaign movie….”FAHRENHEIT 9/11″…which, in effect was just a LONG, BORING, NEGATIVE liberal democrat campaign ad meant to harm President Bush, prior to the 2004 presidential election….but, YOU, and ALL liberals didn’t seem to mind that, did you?…ANYTHING, true or not, that defamed ANY Republican was…and still is…just FINE with you isn’t it.

    So, the people of Citizens United caught on quickly and decided to become a commercial film maker…JUST LIKE THE LYING, TOTALLY DISHONEST, LIBERAL MICHAEL MOORE.

    They made a movie called “Hillary:  The Movie”, which was HIGHLY critical of Hillary…how could it NOT be if it told the truth, unlike the despicable Michael Moore’s movie, right?…I mean, it’s HILLARY CLINTON!

    Well, NATURALLY all you limp-wristed, lying liberals were all upset that anyone else…such as a CONSERVATIVE group like Citizens United…could show a complete movie detailing all the lies, scandals, bribes, and murders, that Hillary had been involved with in her long, and corrupt career, prior to the 2008 primary elections…by the way, you can chalk up FOUR MORE DEAD BODIES to Hillary’s long, and infamous body count…ala Benghazi!

    Anyway, the ensuing, liberal lawsuit resulted in a liberal decision AGAINST Citizens United…seems what was allowed FOR the totally dishonest LIBERAL, Michael Moore, WAS NOT allowed for ANY conservative groups….and THAT’S the way liberals ALWAYS want things…that’s THEIR version of “equal rights” and “freedom of speech”.

    So, since what Citizens United was doing was EXACTLY what Michael Moore had done previously AGAINST Bush…except that they only had to detail the ACTUAL FACTS of Hillarys’ career to show what a true LOW LIFE Hillary IS….Citizens United sued, it ended up  at the Supreme Court, and the court ruled that…basically…if lying, totally dishonest liberals…like Michael Moore, or Oliver Stone…could make anti conservative candidate movies to help the LYING liberal democrat candidates, then, Citizens United…as well as everyone else…had THAT SAME RIGHT UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT of “freedom of speech”…pretty simple….TRUE equal rights.

    The Supreme Court simply clarified that organizations…which are groups of INDIVIDUALS…had the RIGHT to express those INDIVIDUALS’ thoughts, which is a RIGHT protected by the first amendment. 

    The decision, as the lying, totally dishonest, Kenyan, obama falsely claims, did NOT change the LIMITATIONS of corporations or UNIONS to contribute to a candidate’s campaign funding, nor did it remove the limits an individual can contribute to a candidates’ campaign funding, NOR did it change the prohibition on FOREIGN  corporate contributions to American campaigns…something that obama’s campaigns are HIGHLY SUSPECT of receiving!…especially from the murderous muslim infected Middle East.

    Even now, the lying, totally dishonest “Dingy Harry” Reid, and lying liberal senate democrats, are trying to get “S.J. Res 19″…which is a dishonest attempt to REPEAL the first amendment…passed, so as to limit conservative support of candidates, and make it easier for incumbent politicians to win elections….such is the FEAR the power of OUR Tea Party voices joining together to take back OUR America brings to ALL dishonest politicians…OF BOTH PARTIES!

    You, like your lying, totally dishonest “constitutional professor” obama… (by the way, while not YOURS, THAT is ANOTHER LIBERAL LIE…obama was NEVER a “professor”…merely an instructor…and, according to his students’ testimonies, NOT a very good one at that )….should really READ the case rulings on these decisions so you’d HAVE A CLUE as to just WHAT the decision says, and  was based on…before you have your typical, lying liberal  shit hemorrhage.

    Summing up your sarcastic post…

    You said….”i’m sure that’s what the founding fathers wanted and wrote into the constitution.”

    “Yes, that IS what the Founding Fathers wanted, and is WHY there is a First Amendment, protecting free speech for individuals, newspapers, and books…they would have included recordings and movies…within the bounds of public decency, I’m sure…had THOSE types of media been invented at that time.

    You said….” i am sure all “liberals” support that ruling, and all the “conservatives” are appalled”

    No…ALL liberals do NOT support “that ruling”…quite the opposite…and was shown by the totally disrespectful way in which the arrogant, pompous, narcissistic Mau Mau spoke to the Justices during his teleprompter reading of his  “My Self Induced Sorry State of the Union” address he gave shortly after the decision….and NO, most conservatives applaud the decision because “what is good for the lying, totally dishonest, liberal democrat goose, is good for the freedom loving, All American gander”…”Michigander”, in MY case!  lol

    And finally, you said…”you guys are so lame.”…

    “Lame”?…hardly.  I have shown…once again, as I have done NUMEROUS TIMES, although your dishonest, liberal affliction prevents you from honestly admitting it…what misguided thinking you have, and dishonest statements you post on this thread.

    You certainly have a right to say them…as the Supreme Court case we’ve discussed points out…but, neither YOU nor anyone else who reads them should actually believe them…because they are dishonest, untrue…lies.

    Why don’t you stick to Hershey Bars, reruns of The People’s Court, and “a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars”, Rain Man…it will lower your blood pressure.

    UPDATE!….

    Three more, very large “V” formations of geese heading north this morning…no wrong turns…all seemingly focused on their goal…kind of symbolic of the continuously dropping “approval rating” of the lying Bo ‘I-never-met-a-scandal-I-didn’t-like” Jangles, and American’s realization that this man…and his liberal supporters…have been an absolute disaster for this country…can I get an “AMEN!…THANK YA’ JEEEE–SUS!”  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.  Thanks Rick…and great “linguistics” lesson! lol…. but you KNOW that “the hunters” never stand on the “left side” of the pond, except when some sorry, gun hating dishonest democrat is trying to get elected, and show that they “aren’t really trying to steal your guns!”, such as the sorry Bill Clinton, John “Lurch” Kerry, or HILLARY!…and never forget the infamous photo of the retarded looking Michael Dukakis IN A TANK!…LOL…talk about “defending the second amendment!…can you say “LOONEY TUNES!”  lol 

    Sorry to hear about the mechanical maladies…but, “get ‘er DONE!”…we’re burning daylight!  lol

    And Paul…while I agree with most of your post,  I MUST question your premise that “the AVERAGE motorcycle has a sound output of 100 decibels”…that’s pretty high, and even my finely tuned Screamin’ Eagle slip ons are only 97 decibels…in fact, there are some Honda Gold Wings that are SO quiet, that the totally dishonest Al “The Sky is on FIRE!” Gore is recommending “decibel credits” for their riders! lol….but, it’s encouraging to think, as you point out in your last statement,  that even Doug…IF he rids himself of his “obnoxiously loud” exhaust pipes, MIGHT find a friend!  lol

  13. Paul says:

    The average motorcycle has a sound output of 100 decibels (dB), which, is the equivalent of you hearing a jet take off from 300ft away. Basically the average motorcycle is f***ing LOUD so on the average bike a loud pipe is not necessary for safety. Now if you have a very quiet bike you should do one (or two) of two things, (a) Get a louder bike you pussy or (b) be cautious when riding. I honestly do not think that loud pipes should be banned but some restrictions would be nice. Nobody like a prick with a obnoxiously loud bike!

  14. Rick L says:

    Okay Doug, now I know you like to live in a fantasy world and deny reality. I also know the left like to try and redefine words in the English language, but words have meanings and for those of us that live in reality those meanings don’t change because someone wants them to.

    Now I am going to violate one of my primary rules, but only once so don’t worry this will be the last email I respond to you with, because my first rule is not to get engaged with nitwits. Life is too short and I don’t waste valuable time trying educate those that can’t be educated.

    Okay now for a little lesson in English. The words we are discussing are Liberal and Conservative. Those aren’t just random words, they have definitive meanings. Now a liberal is someone who likes to modify and change the existing government and a conservative is someone that likes to keep the existing government as it is. That isn’t an opinion, that is the meaning of the words. Now I know modern leftist try to modify the meaning of most words, but that just nonsense.

    So now I will show you an example of those words that even a nitwit can understand. I will use the founding fathers. Take Jefferson for example, prior to the revolution he would have been an extreme liberal, because he wanted extreme changes to the current government, so much so he was willing to fight a revolution. Now post revolution he and all of the other founding fathers would have been considered extreme conservatives, because they wanted no change to the existing government. There political stances and personal beliefs had not changed, but what did change was the ruling government. The terms Liberal and Conservative are relative terms and they mean nothing unless you have a reference point, the ruling government.

    Another example during the rule of the Soviet Union, which will exist soon again, someone that would be considered an extreme liberal in the soviet union, wanted dramatic change to their ruling government, would be closely aligned to someone considered a conservative in the US. And someone considered an extreme liberal (such as yourself) in the US would be closely aligned with someone considered a conservative in the Soviet Union. Where as other terms extend beyond countries and stand on their own without reference to governments, such as leftist, that is someone that believe in equal results and a person on the right tends to believe in equal opportunity and a nitwit is someone that doesn’t understand the difference…

    Now to tie a few terms together for you. Extreme Liberals in the US = Leftist = Democrats = nitwits. Conservatives in the US = People on the right = supporters of the Constitution and unfortunately currently don’t equal any political party.

    One final example: Obummer = Extreme Liberal (probably a Fascist) = Democrat = Nitwit
    Rand Paul = Good Conservative = Constitutionalist = Hopefully the Future of the Republican Party.

    Hope that helps, but I doubt it did, because I don’t think you can be educated…

  15. doug s. says:

    ya, “conservatives” are the sole defenders of the constitution. and “liberals” only wanna pervert it. i guess that explains the supreme court’s citizen’s united ruling where the court decided that corporations have the same rights as people. i’m sure that’s what the founding fathers wanted and wrote into the constitution. i am sure all “liberals” support that ruling, and all the “conservatives” are appalled.

    you guys are so lame.

  16. Rick L says:

    Hi Dan,

    Glad to see you and Vern are fighting the good fight, even if trying to educate someone like Doug is akin to mining for gold using your forehead to dig the mine…

    Remember he refers to himself as a liberal, by definition a liberal is unhappy with the current form of government (I consider our Constitution our form of government, not Obummer) and would like to change it. Seems to me he is in lockstep with Obummer, because he is doing everything in his power to trample the Constitution.

    I like your geese analogy, but there could be a simpler explanation, the hunters could stand on the left side of the pond…

    Unfortunately riding is a couple of weeks off still, because my baby came through the winter with a loose steering head bearing, all day job on my metric, have to remove windshield, headlight and fuel tank to make a five minute adjustment not a great design. And it also has a slight lifter tick so that is project number two and project number three is my V&H dual bagger loud exhaust developed a slight leak so it has to be removed, new gasket and reattached…. Loud Pipes save lives.

    Unfortunately this is taking longer than it should, because every time I start working on it, I take a ride to the local Harley dealer and sit my ass on a New Road Glide, Unfortunately/fortunately that one is spoken for. I would sure love to ride that this summer, but not to excited about explaining to the wife where all that extra money went to…

  17. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…”obfucator”…careful you don’t slip and fall Doug…I think you’ve stepped in another pile of your own bull shit…they DO seem to be all around you!

    My goodness!  Reading Doug’s posts are like watching some old Turner Classic Movie about the Russian Bolshevik uprising…which gave power to the Russian SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC LABOR PARTY…kind of like the lying democrats and all the  dishonest UNIONS that funded TWO totally dishonest democrat presidential campaigns, and stuffed the ballot boxes for Vladimir Lenin…OOPS!…I mean barrack obama!

    The “haves and the have nots”…the “1 per centers”…the “rich”…same old liberal, socialist/communist, “power to the people” bull shit, eh Rain Man? …”A hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars!”   lol

    “The rich are getting richer every day”…yeah, so what?…when, in history, did that NOT happen?..and, WHY does that bother you?…doesn’t bother me…I just want YOU lying, liberal democrats to leave the rest of us OUT of your drug induced fantasies of a perfect world…which will NEVER happen, COMRADE!…unless, of course the entire lying, socialist  democrat party succumbs to the same, mysterious ending as the dinosaurs!  lol

    The really sad part is the “disappearing” middle class.  THAT’S true, and obama has ACCELERATED that statistic for close to SIX bleak years now….and YOU put him in office…TWICE!

    It’s NO accident that obama…with his admitted Nazi collaborator buddy, George Soros…has done NOTHING but create thousands of new anti business, anti oil industry, anti coal industry, anti CAPITALISM rules, regulations, and penalties to crush our economy, over regulate our healthcare and increase it’s costs, which FURTHER destroys the purchasing power of the “middle class”, not to mention doing everything in his power to keep energy prices high…remember, gasoline averaged $1.78 cents a gallon when the “anointed one” stole his way into the White House, but has been at or near $4.00 dollars a gallon ever since….to push his “green technology” agenda…destroy jobs, CAUSE the price of ALL consumer goods to rise, and FURTHER destroy the “shrinking middle class”…and YOU put him in office…TWICE!

    While you claim you “don’t like obama”…”NOW”…YOU lying democrats, and the totally dishonest liberal mass media, put this low life, anti American, anti capitalist socialist bastard…and his lying liberal lap dogs in office…TWICE!

    Even after close to SIX YEARS of DELIBERATE economic disasters, lies, corruption, incompetence, and MASSIVE spending on a scale the WORLD has never seen,  YOU still blame others…never placing the blame squarely on the head of obama, and YOU lying, liberal sycophants …which is EXACTLY where it belongs…and YOU voted for him…TWICE!

    The world always has, and will ALWAYS have,  “rich and poor”…but it’s the dishonest DELUSIONAL liberals like YOU, Doug, that don’t seem to realize that. 

    You…obama, and the rest of the lying, dishonest democrat party simply will NEVER admit that their “pipe dreams” of an Earthly utopia will NEVER happen…even if YOU, obama, and all the rest of you lying. liberal democrats  STEAL every single cent the “rich” and “one per centers” make…or EVER make.

    You ARE delusional, and your mental capacities are very suspect…like ALL liberals. 

    I’m amazed you can even balance yourself on two wheels…IF that is even true.  Now watch out for all those “Republican soccer moms” and their “fat SUVs, trying to run you over, Rain Man!  lol

    A VALUABLE REMINDER FROM NATURE THIS MORNING….

    While I was out in my back yard with my dogs this morning, I observed a large flock on Canadian Geese honking loudly and headed north, from the large wetlands nearby called “St John’s Marsh”.    It’s large “V shaped” formation was, as usual, a bit “unbalanced” to one side.

    Shortly after passing overhead they started a long, slow LEFT turn to the West… and that created a lot of extra “honking”. 

    Finally, after about a “quarter” turn, one side of the “V” broke away and started to turn back to the RIGHT …toward the North…which was the CORRECT thing to do.

    It was easy to see that the CLOSER the geese on the right were to the mixed up “leader”, the more willing they were to turn LEFT and follow along…while those FARTHEST from the “leader” were much more quick to recognize the MISTAKE, and turn back to the RIGHT…the CORRECT direction.

    I liken those misguided geese on the right, that were so willing to follow an obviously WRONG course, to people like John McCain, Lindsay Graham, and Mitch McConnell, as well as other Republican “leaders”..these geese, just like the named politicians, are “RINOs”…Right Wing in Name ONLY….and, apparently, will follow the wrong course forever…even though they could NEVER arrive at “north”, if they circle the globe for a hundred years.

    Now, one COULD ask the “experts” about just WHY one side of the “V” formation is almost always longer than the other side…and almost always it’s the “RIGHT” side. 

    The “experts”…you know, those men and women with all their college degrees and lab coats, and a string of letters behind their names ALMOST as long as obama’s “Pinocchio” nose…would hem and haw…and start their typical liberal democrat filibuster of an answer to a very simple, and easily answered question…because dishonest liberal democrats can simply NEVER give a short, honest answer to ANY simple question…kind of like the “A hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars” that Rain Man always gives.

    The real, and truthful answer to that simple question is…there are MORE geese on the right side…the “Right Wing” of the big “V” formation…just like conservative people in America….there ARE more of US than there are of THEM!…it’s THAT simple!

    And, ALL it takes is for ONE brave goose…then another, then another, then another…to see that their “leader” is totally mistaken, making a very bad choice by turning to the “LEFT”…to break away, reform their “V”, and get BACK on the correct and TRUE direction to reach their destination…

    Nature ALWAYS does the “right” thing…there is NO room for idealist, radical, dishonest, leftist democrat political correctness….kind of like the Tea Party.

    The truth is always the truth.

    I think I’ll saddle up the Night Train, and take a nice, RUMBLING, cruise along the Lake St. Clair shore line and  up the St. Clair River, and visit Port Huron today…and I’ll be sure to smile, and give a friendly wave to the large groups of Canadian Geese I’ll see swimming along and resting up for their northerly flights, from their “base camp” at St John’s Marsh.

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES…liberal/socialists DESTROY them!

    P.S. Looks like England and some other socialist countries in Europe are finally waking up…voting CONSERVATIVE…and STOPPING the FLOOD of anti white, untrained, diseased, aliens into their countries…while obama…of course…throws  America’s doors WIDE OPEN in his liberal/democrat  grab for more and more political power…no matter how badly it damages or even destroys America.

  18. doug s. says:

    the rich are getting richer every day, and the middle class disappearing at an ever larger rate. and i can’t see the facts? and i am the delusional one? lol!

    the disparity between the haves and the have nots – between the 1%’er’s and everyone else – has not been as great in america as it is today, in any time of america’s history since the late 1920′s. hmmm… of course, you or danno or some other obfuscator can lamely state this fact is a lie, like every other fact you don’t like. just keep blabbing “liar liar liar” when you don’t have anything substantive to dispute inconvenient facts.

  19. doug s. says:

    i might, but i doubt it. i suspect some hack like christie or bush will get the repub nomination, and then it won’t really matter who wins. if a teabagger gets the nomination, i might hold my nose and vote for hillary.

    while i did hold my nose & vote for hillary’s husband in ’92, i became so sick of the clintons, i voted for a 3rd party candidate in ’96. i suspect i will do the same in 2016. i was all set to vote for a 3rd party candidate in 2008, but i changed my mind when mccain picked palin as his running mate.

  20. Vern Rosa says:

    And no doubt you will vote for her, Doug, because you’ll find something you don’t like about the Republican running against her.

  21. Vern Rosa says:

    God, Doug! You are delusional. With all the facts right in front of you, you refuse to see the truth. With voters like you… well, I don’t need to finish that thought.

  22. doug s. says:

    tc, what we have now is the middle ground – liberals don’tack because he is too conservative, republicans don’t like him because he is a communist.

    do you think things will be different when hillary is coronated? the clintons are even more corporate sell outs than barack. and she will be just as despised by both the left and the right.

  23. TC says:

    ” And if we hold on for one more year then maybe,
    These skies will start to clear,
    We can build our love on middle ground,

    Middle ground,
    Middle ground,
    Middle ground,
    Middle ground,

    Middle ground,
    Middle ground,
    Middle ground,
    Middle ground… “

  24. doug s. says:

    barack sucks, mitt sucks more. barack twists the law to suit his purpose. ya, no other presidents have done that, right? this country is becoming more and more an oligarchy every day. corporations own our govt, and mitt is a card carrying member of that class. barack is a wannabee. barack sucks, mitt sucks more.

    the reason no reasonable legislation can get thru the senate is not cuz of reid, it’s cuz the republicans have more than 40 votes.

    there were 4 people killed in an unfortunate tragedy of bengazi, and it’s a witch hunt. (of course the repubs don’t wanna talk about fact that the voted against requested state dept funding to beef up embassy security.) why? the repub’s only agenda is to defeat anything that will help average americans, just to make the administration look bad. don’t believe it? the repub congressional leadership actually said it. the repubs have no positive agenda themselves so all they can do is come up with rants and ad hominum attacks. (hmmm, where did i hear that?)

    so the repubs rant about 4 dead in benghazi yet, during 2000-2008, the repubs can lie and steal and break national & international law and kill hundreds of thousands with two unfunded wars to enrich their oligarch corporate buddies, but that’s all ok. (and start the VA disaster that is now rearing its ugly head – take an already piss-poor underfunded govt agency and bury it with hundreds of thousands of maimed and ptsd’d kids coming back from afghanistan and iraq..)

    no ad hominum attacks here; no rants coming from me, vern; just the facts.

  25. doug s. says:

    zzzzzzzz……..

  26. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…now Rain Man…

    “Narrow minded”?….MOI?

    Au contraire, you irritating, Chihuahua-like, ankle biting, “dog” boy!  lol

    Nothing “narrow minded” in my attitude…it’s more of what YOUR shuck and jive, charlatan “hero”, obama, refers to as “laser focus”…a term he has proven he has ZERO CLUES about, as he unwittingly stops, lies, and then moves on to his next set of teleprompter written, “tent-revival-preaching-to-the-low-information-faithful”, unrelated set of MORE LIES!  lol

    Actually, I “grok” you deceptive meanings extremely well.  That’s how I can so easily spot you lying, totally dishonest liberals…no matter how much you try to hem and haw, and avoid an honest answer, ala…”I never had sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky….the cigar did it! ”  lol 

    To me,  It’s instinctual…basic…it’s in my very DNA!…like a mongoose spotting a dishonest, obama “King-wanna-be”  cobra, “LYING” in the weeds…you simply cannot escape!   LOL

    Jeez, Rain Man…you even took another “shot” at it, and STILL couldn’t give an easy, honest, ONE WORD answer to my simple question, could ya’?…it’s always got to be…”a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars!”…lol

    Enough!…go watch reruns of Judge Wapner!  lol

    And Vern…Good call!  Never be taken in by these phony-baloney “I didn’t vote FOR obama, I voted AGAINST Romney” hypocrites.  They’re just trying to cover their own pathetic dishonest asses, because even THEY feel guilty now for bringing on these political “Dark Ages” we’ve suffered through under the anti American, fumbling, stumbling, bungling, “King Fish” obama!.

    That tired old “diversionary tactic” is right out of the “Rules for Radicals”, by the America-hating anarchist, and liberal democrat hero,  Saul Alinsky…in the chapter called, “Tap Dancing, Double Talk, and the ART of NOT Stepping in Your Own Bull Shit!”  lol

    By the way, I’m sure you noticed how Mr. “ain’t I cool” obama, tried to run from his latest “Veterans Dying from not receiving medical care” scandal… in a very LONG line of disastrous scandals, that are being stacked up like cord wood in the Oval Office…by going to “visit the troops” in Afghanistan…and EVEN THERE… in a WAR ZONE…idiotically blows the cover of the TOP CIA agent in the country!…tell me…is this “Curious George” look-a-like THAT stupid?…or is it even MORE proof that he really does HATE the U.S.A?

    I rode the “Ground Pounding Hammer” yesterday!…still alive…PROOF!  lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    P.S.  And Rain Man…if you’re gonna try to “trash talk” to someone…never mix your metaphors…the insult you were looking for is “pea brain”…you DICK HEAD!  lol

  27. Vern Rosa says:

    Doug, Romney an “oligarch”? I presume you know that an oligarchy is a government whose power rests with a small group, and an oligarch is one of the rulers. Assuming you know that, what do you think Obama, Reid, Pelosy, Holder, et al are making of this country?

    When Obama doesn’t like a law he ignores or sidesteps it, taking on to himself powers he has no right to (and his chosen cronies allow him to get away with it). With Reid controlling the Senate, no reasonable bill (or even a budget) can get passed. What about Peolosy’s constant ravings about the Benghazi hearings being nothing but a “stunt” in an attempt to stifle legitimate questions? Are we supposed to forget that Americans were killed and this government refused to send help? And with Holder refusing to enforce Federal laws Obama doesn’t agree with? (The New Black Panthers outside polling places with night sticks attempting to intimidate white voters.) That was deemed to not be a crime?? What does all of that add up to if not an oligarchy?

    Romney could not possibly have been worse that what we have now.

    Oh, by the way… I don’t know if Romney dislikes women, but what the heck difference does that make? As far as I know, he has never raped one, never been legitimately charged with harrassment, and had women in his administration when he was Governor.

    Ad hominem attacks are the tactics of those who have no legitimate charges against their opponents. Democrats and liberals use such tactics frequently in an attempt to stifle persons whose ideologies differ from theirs.

    If you actually believe the ideas you put forth in your rants here, I truly feel sorry for you.

    Oh well, at least…unless he finds a way to circumvent the law again…you won’t be able to vote for Obama in 2016

  28. doug s. says:

    sorry, vern, as bad as barack is; he’s freaking awesome, compared to the misogynist oligarch he was running against. AWESOME!

    and i am the idiot. “lol!”

  29. Vern Rosa says:

    Doug… Let me get this straight. You voted for Obama simply because you didn’t like his opponent? It doesn’t matter to you that the current occupant of the White House is doing his level best to divide us against ourselves, and to ruin this country?

    I try to refrain from name calling, but Doug, you’re an idiot.

  30. doug s. says:

    dan, wow you are narrow minded. yes, i voted for barack. while holding my nose. what of it? even tho i think he sucks, compared to the loser he was running against, and his total loser running mate – not so much. sorry your pea head can’t grok that.

    babble babble babble.

  31. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    LOL…well, there ya’ go, Doug! 

    I KNEW you couldn’t do it…lying liberals…like you…never can. They’re too busy covering up their LAST lie with the NEW one they’re getting ready to tell.

    I asked for a simple…TRUTHFUL…one word answer and what do I get?…”A hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars”!  LOL

    Go suck on a Hershey Bar, Rain Man.  lol

    TC…you’re right!…the “Joker” IS on the right!…and he’s WILD!  lol

    “Stuck in the Middle with You”….What a great song, eh!…although now, every time I hear it, I picture Michael Madsen’s character, “Mr Blond”, in the movie “Reservoir Dogs”…dancing around preparing to torture the poor young cop….kind of like the Kenyan Mau Mau mutilating our Constitution….but we’re all supposed to think THAT mutilation is just fine and never criticize…’cause he’s a negro, ya’ know…yeah, it’s true…it was in ALL the papers!  lol

    And Vern…naw…dealing with Rain Man feels more like….a bad case of hemorrhoids! lol

    Great weather today in Michigan to go riding…BIG decision to make!

    Do I choose my classically beautiful 2006 Harley Davidson Night Train, with the “Screamin’ Eagle” slip on mufflers?…or go with my 2013 Victory Hammer with the “Ground Pounder Custom Popcorn” modification slipons?

    The Screamin’ Eagle slip ons are…to all of us with FULL audio capabilities… a bit “loud”, ‘though, quite melodious…along the lines of a Stradivarius violin.

    The Hammer slipons on the other hand, with my custom “Ground Pounder Popcorn” modification… which is basically taking the stock GIGANTIC Victory mufflers, cutting about a foot of excess metal off.the ends, gutting the baffles…and leaving the ends open like two GIGANTIC cans of Campbell soup hanging out…are more attune to the exhilaration us music lovers feel, at the roaring cannons during the finale of the “1812 Overture”, by Tchaikovski…a notorious promoter of the “Loud Pipes Save Lives!” philosophy.

    They are MUCH louder, add zero power, and, due to the lack of back pressure and lean running condition, have more deceleration “popping” than an evening at Orville Redenbacher’s! lol

    WARNING!…The “Cannons” may make dogs bark, scare your mom, leave your neighbor dumbfounded, make cats piss on the floor, wake you up in the middle of the night shouting at the top of your lungs because you think you’re being robbed, scare the crap out of you, and/or blow up your ears and brains; among other things…they have also been deemed…by the state of California…to produce toxic chemicals that have been shown to produce cancer in illegal mexicans, and gay men.

    I, of course, since, as all the “quiet pipes only” crowd points out, will be IN FRONT of the pipes, and will not even notice them! lol

    Let’s see….just how many lives DO I want to SAVE today? lol

    Ride safe all…and be on the look out for those “fat SUVs” aimed at running you off the road! lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  32. Vern Rosa says:

    Hi all,
    Well, it must be summertime. Dan and Doug are at each other’s throats again.

  33. doug s. says:

    ok, dan, now for the item-by-item reply to your babbling:

    LOL…my goodness!…still following the “Rules for Radicals” play book of your patron saints of the liberal/progressive/socialist democrat party, eh, Rain Main?
    - Babble babble babble

    More of that old “bury them with bullshit” strategy…well, that old tune is about as effective as your standard “a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars” in response to ANYTHING asked of you.
    - Babble babble babble

    First off, I DID “address the issue” in my initial post…that being that “David” was afraid of being attacked for posting his thoughts about the “loud pipes” issue.
    - Babble babble babble

    My assurances to him were that he should feel free to post whatever his thoughts might be…and that if they happened to disagree with those of us that KNOW the POTENTIAL benefits that “loud pipes” might…and have, in some cases” …provide, he would NOT be attacked for expressing them…but to be ready to…and expect…name calling, personal attacks, and probably profanity being hurled his way from those that insist on THEIR “quiet pipes only” opinion, and want a LAW to “write it in stone”…the standard tyrannical mindset of the lying, liberal democrats, such as you, Doug…should his opinion disagree with YOURS.
    - Babble babble babble

    One only has to read a few previous posts in this thread to back up and verify my statement, however, should the reader choose to read more, that tactic flows all the way back to the beginning of this thread…liberal tyranny is never ending.
    Now, addressing your repetitive post for “proof” of your constant lies, I won’t answer each of them, although I COULD, and have, in the past…it’s tedious and a total waste of time, since you…just like the lying “Kingfish” obama…. lack any integrity and will NEVER admit your are lying, even when confronted with PROOF, i.e. “If you like your health care plan, your can keep your health care plan, PERIOD!”…and we ALL know how truthful THAT absolute statement was, don’t we…and you will continue to repeat your lies…but here goes….
    - Babble babble babble

    doug s. says:
    May 27, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    hey dan, instead of babbling lame off topic nonsense, why not address the issues?
    LOL…well, EXCUSE ME all to hell, Rain Man! Actually I DID “address the issues” in my post PRIOR to your inane attack on me….and there’s nothing “mindless” about it…that’s for you obama Kool-Aide drinking sycophants….”a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars!” lol
    - Babble babble babble

    I was speaking to “David”, and “TC”…NOT YOU, despite your OBSESSION of trying to totally control this thread…and I addressed that issue above.
    - Babble babble babble.

    But, I’ll humor you a bit…until your medication kicks in, and you drift off into fantasy land of complete socialist control by the likes of the lying obama, Hillary, or Bernie Sanders! Lol
    - Babble babble babble. Hillary and barack the same as Bernie? Wow, you are more ignorant than even *i* realized – no wonder all the babbling!

    You ask: “what part of “i don’t like obama” do you not understand?”….
    Okay, how about answering this question…it’s pretty simple…only one word required…
    “Did you, or did you not vote for the lying, totally dishonest Kenyan born socialist muslim, obama, in 2008 and then again in 2012…yes or no?…can you handle that simple request…or do you want to go off on a typical dishonest liberal rant about how “Nixon lied, or Reagan did this, and Bush did that.?
    One word…yes, or no…the rest of your verbal flailing about for “justification” of your vote is irrelevant.
    - babble babble babble. I didn’t vote *FOR* anyone in 2012. I did vote against mitt, tho. Or is there no gray for you – only black and white? no wonder all the babbling.

    Then, to show one of your NUMEROUS lies, and keep it short, I’ll answer this question:“instead of mindlessly calling me a liar, how about telling me – even once – what i have ever posted to this thread that is not factual or truthful? can you do it EVEN ONCE?”…
    Even though your amateurish attempt to copy my honest, and rapier quick technique to “cut to the bottom line” SEEMS straightforward…you will NEVER answer a question with a simple, verifiable truth…all your statements, like all lying liberals from obama, to Hillary, to Slick Willie, need to be examined and dissected to show how you misrepresent, spin, and deliberately leave out the actual facts….can you say, “It depends on what ‘is”, IS”…lol.
    So, my answer is yes, …I’ve done it numerous times, but, until your meds kick in and you doze off, I’ll humor you once again…
    - babble babble babble.

    As an example, you claimed previously that oil production in the U.S. was higher due to obama’s policies…which he also claims…yet, I showed you the reports from the organizations that track oil production, that oil production was up ON PRIVATE and STATE OWNED land, that obama had no control over…but DOWN on federally controlled land, off the East Coast, and in the Gulf of Mexico BECAUSE of obama’s punitive policies of shutting down drilling, and making new oil leases much harder to get…so, your dishonest implication was, and is a LIE. Romney caught obama in that same lie during the debates, and obama didn’t even know how to answer it….so, the lying, totally dishonest liberal “moderator”, Candy Crowley, of the corrupt and liberal CNN, said they “had to move on”, and saved the lying, foreign born obama’s sorry lying ass, yet again.
    obama lied…you willingly repeated that lie…you are a liar.
    - babble babble babble. overall production has gone up. Public or private land is not the issue. You are the liar here, not me.

    You also claimed that obama “saved” GM with his dishonest bailout. Yet, GM, even after getting the hundreds of millions, or even billions, went bankrupt anyway…so, obama did NOT “save GM”…all he did was use taxpayer money to pay off his union political friends and backers. Romney, being an experienced business man…something the lying, Kenya born obama absolutely is NOT…had previously said that GM was “bloated” with management and out dated techniques, and needed to streamline, and that only a controlled bankruptcy would allow them to do what needed to be done. So, since GM ended up filing bankruptcy anyway…despite obama stealing all that taxpayer money to pay off his corrupt political cronies, like the lying thief he has showed himself to be for over five years now…Romney was right, and obama DID NOT “save” General Motors, like he dishonestly claims, and you asserted…in a nut shell…you lied…again.
    - babble babble babble. Like it or not, gm is still in business. I personally don’t like it, I think gm sucks, but that is not the issue. The issue is that the American born barack did nothing different than mitt or any other republican would have done. he pushed for the bailout of gm as any republican prez also would have done. Sorry, no lying here on my part.

    You claim in a recent post that the lying, socialist obama “supports keeping Guantanamo Bay open”’…in a story from Time Magazine, even THAT liberal rag states…
    “Barack Obama had been President for ONLY ONE FULL DAY when, on Jan. 22, 2009, he acted on a central campaign promise, and signed an Executive Order to CLOSE the notorious military prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, where the Bush Administration had detained hundreds of men captured in combat and counter terrorism operations since 2001.”
    obama ran on a promise to close Gitmo…he signed an executive order…he wants it closed…and only the uproar and political heat he got…and other lying democrats got… when his lying, liberal lap dog, Eric Holder started saying they were looking at where to bring obama’s murdering muslim brother prisoners from Gitmo, did the lying “king” wanna-be, obama, back off on his demands.
    So, your statement that your lying president obama “supports keeping Gitmo open”….according to Time Magazine anyway…is just ANOTHER LIE…you’re a liar.
    - babble babble babble. Sorry, barack can say whatever he wants. Just cuz he’s lying does not mean I am. Gitmo is still open, afaik. if he really wanted to, it would be closed by now.

    I could, and have gone over and over these types of lies with you, and you never admit the truth…your facts are wrong, deliberately so, and therefore, they are lies, and you continue to push them…therefore, you are a liar…simple.
    - babble babble babble. All you can do is continuously lie, while saying I am a liar. of course, there are the countless other statements i have made that you are completely silent about. i am glad that you at least found a couple statements that you could lamely attempt to show i was “lying”…

    Then you ask…”and how about telling me how loud pipes save lives? ;~)”….
    Very easy…and if you’d actually READ other people’s posts, you wouldn’t have to ask me such a foolish question…but, here’s a few examples of actual, living, riders who’s experiences have shown them how having a “loud” exhaust on a motorcycle, is much, MUCH safer, and quite possibly CAN SAVE LIVES…
    ….On Sept 6, 2013, at 6:04 am, CHRISTINE posted:
    “I know for a FACT that cars have HEARD me before they have SEEN me b/c they COULDN’T see me due to a vehicle blocking their view. One guy just 2 weeks ago did not pull out from a small side street b/c he could hear me coming. A huge delivery truck was blocking his view, his window was open and he heard me coming. How could he not? I have loud Vance and Hines pipes and I thank God I do.”….
    Then there’s….
    Chris says:
    November 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm
    It stands to reason, HEARING being one of your senses. Ambulances and police cars don’t have sirens for nothin’!!!
    Of course, loud pipes are not as piercing as sirens, but they can alert someone who otherwise doesn’t see you. I have, at times, heard motorcycles before I even saw them, BECAUSE they had loud pipes. I have also avoided backing out with my car or trusted my sight to change lanes because I HEARD a bike before I saw it. In one case it was in my blind spot, but I SURE heard it!
    How can anyone dispute this obvious advantage of loud pipes??? Sorry if it annoys Harley bashers like Matt, but.my life is more important than a little annoyance for them. Get over it.
    And just one more…from our friend in a foreign land….
    Attila says: August 23, 2012 at 12:40 am
    I live in a country where motorcycling is still viewed as a fringe hobby, sport, past time, you give it a name :)
    Because of this, there is little respect for us, from car drivers, pedestrians and so on. In such an environment, loud pipes do save lives and have done so for me, more than once.
    Yes, I know, riding a loud bike in a city can be a bit annoying. But I prefer being loud and disturbing than hurt. When I see a car that wants to turn into my lane without signalling or giving right of way, I just pull the clutch and rev it a bit. Just to get their attention. It works a hell of a lot better than flashing him or tooting my horn :)
    The same goes with pedestrians. As people are not quite used to motorcycles, most think that they’ll be able to cross way before I get there – which is suicidal and just plain wrong. So again, I just rev it – you should see them step back on the sidewalk and sometimes even go an extra 10 meters to the nearest crossing.
    As a personal statistic:
    Loud pipe motorcycle: 0 traffic accidents (slipping on wet road due to my own stupidity does not count :P )
    Stock, silent Honda: 2 (both being results of cars not giving right of way – you know, the “I did not see you” syndrome)
    Well, they may not see me, but at least they damn well hear me.”….
    Now of course, I personally could add several of my own experiences, and have done so in the past, but you will not accept them…as I’m sure you will not accept the statements of the posters I quoted…because they don’t agree with YOUR opinion…you being a dishonest liberal and all…but there they are…”PROOF”.
    - babble babble babble. I happen to disagree that loud pipes save lives. And there is no proof either way. The logic for my beliefs are at least as good as the logic for your, re; loud pipes saving lives.

    Now, you watch out for all those “fat SUVs” that you seem to think are “out to get you”, Rain Man, ya’ hear? lol
    - babble babble babble. “lol”

  34. doug s. says:

    thanks, dan, for proving what i said – your babbling of nonsense.

    btw, in 2012, i did not vote for barack, i *DID* vote AGAINST mitt.

  35. TC says:

    Trying to make some sense of it all,
    But I can see it makes no sense at all …

    … Clowns to left of me,
    Jokers to the right,
    Here I am, stuck in the middle with you

    (apologies to Gerry Rafferty)

  36. Dan says:

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

    Damn!…it’s 9am, and it’s been raining out…pavement’s wet…no chance to ride right now, sooo….

    LOL…my goodness!…still following the “Rules for Radicals” play book of your patron saints of the liberal/progressive/socialist democrat party, eh, Rain Main?

    More of that old “bury them with bullshit” strategy…well, that old tune is about as effective as your standard “a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars” in response to ANYTHING asked of you.

    First off, I DID “address the issue” in my initial post…that being that “David” was afraid of being attacked for posting his thoughts about the “loud pipes” issue.

    My assurances to him were that he should feel free to post whatever his thoughts might be…and that if they happened to disagree with those of us that KNOW the POTENTIAL benefits that “loud pipes” might…and have, in some cases” …provide,  he would NOT be attacked for expressing them…but to be ready to…and expect…name calling, personal attacks, and probably profanity being hurled his way from those that insist on THEIR “quiet pipes only” opinion, and want a LAW to “write it in stone”…the standard tyrannical mindset of the lying, liberal democrats, such as you, Doug…should his opinion disagree with YOURS.

    One only has to read a few previous posts in this thread to back up and verify my statement, however, should the reader choose to read more, that tactic flows all the way back to the beginning of this thread…liberal tyranny is never ending.

    Now, addressing your repetitive post for “proof” of your constant lies, I won’t answer each of them, although I COULD, and have, in the past…it’s tedious and a total waste of time, since you…just like the lying “Kingfish” obama…. lack any integrity and will NEVER admit your are lying, even when confronted with PROOF, i.e. “If you like your health care plan, your can keep your health care plan, PERIOD!”…and we ALL know how truthful THAT absolute statement was, don’t we…and you will continue to repeat your lies…but here goes….

    doug s. says:
    May 27, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    hey dan, instead of babbling lame off topic nonsense, why not address the issues?

    LOL…well, EXCUSE ME all to hell, Rain Man!  Actually I DID “address the issues” in my post PRIOR to your inane attack on me….and there’s nothing “mindless” about it…that’s for you obama Kool-Aide drinking sycophants….”a hundred dollars, ’bout a hundred dollars!” lol

    I was speaking to “David”, and “TC”…NOT YOU, despite your OBSESSION of trying to totally control this thread…and I addressed that issue above.

    But, I’ll humor you a bit…until your medication kicks in, and you drift off into fantasy land of complete socialist control by the likes of the lying obama, Hillary, or Bernie Sanders! lol

    You ask:  “what part of “i don’t like obama” do you not understand?”….

    Okay, how about answering this question…it’s pretty simple…only one word required…

    “Did you, or did you not vote for the lying, totally dishonest Kenyan born socialist muslim, obama, in 2008 and then again in 2012…yes or no?…can you handle that simple request…or do you want to go off on a typical dishonest liberal rant about how “Nixon lied, or Reagan did this, and Bush did that.?

    One word…yes, or no…the rest of your verbal flailing about for “justification” of your vote is irrelevant.

    Then, to show one of your NUMEROUS lies, and keep it short, I’ll answer this question:

    “instead of mindlessly calling me a liar, how about telling me – even once – what i have ever posted to this thread that is not factual or truthful? can you do it EVEN ONCE?”…

    Even though your amateurish attempt to copy my honest, and rapier quick technique to “cut to the bottom line” SEEMS straightforward…you will NEVER answer a question with a simple, verifiable truth…all your statements, like all lying liberals from obama, to Hillary, to Slick Willie, need to be examined and dissected to show how you misrepresent, spin, and deliberately leave out the actual facts….can you say, “It depends on what ‘is”, IS”…lol.

    So, my answer is yes, …I’ve done it numerous times, but, until your meds kick in and you doze off, I’ll humor you once again…

    As an example, you claimed previously that oil production in the U.S. was higher due to obama’s policies…which he also claims…yet, I showed you the reports from the organizations that track oil production,  that oil production was up ON PRIVATE and STATE OWNED land, that obama had no control over…but DOWN on federally controlled land, off the East Coast, and in the Gulf of Mexico BECAUSE of obama’s punitive policies of shutting down drilling, and making new oil leases much harder to get…so, your dishonest implication was, and is a LIE.  Romney caught obama in that same lie during the debates, and obama didn’t even know how to answer it….so, the lying, totally dishonest liberal “moderator”, Candy Crowley, of the corrupt and liberal CNN,  said they “had to move on”, and saved the lying, foreign born obama’s sorry lying ass, yet again.

    obama lied…you willingly repeated that lie…you are a liar.

    You also claimed that obama “saved” GM with his dishonest bailout.  Yet, GM, even after getting the hundreds of millions, or even billions, went bankrupt anyway…so, obama did NOT “save GM”…all he did was use taxpayer money to pay off his union political friends and backers.  Romney, being an experienced business man…something the lying, Kenya born obama absolutely is NOT…had previously said that GM was “bloated” with management and out dated techniques, and needed to streamline, and that only a controlled bankruptcy would allow them to do what needed to be done.  So, since GM ended up filing bankruptcy anyway…despite obama stealing all that taxpayer money to pay off his corrupt political cronies,  like the lying thief he has showed himself to be for over five years now…Romney was right, and obama DID NOT “save” General Motors, like he dishonestly claims, and you asserted…in a nut shell…you lied…again.

    You claim in a recent post that the lying, socialist obama “supports keeping Guantanamo Bay open”’…in a story from Time Magazine,  even THAT liberal rag states…

    “Barack Obama had been President for ONLY ONE FULL DAY when, on Jan. 22, 2009, he acted on a central campaign promise, and signed an Executive Order to CLOSE the notorious military prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, where the Bush Administration had detained hundreds of men captured in combat and counter terrorism operations since 2001.”

    obama ran on a promise to close Gitmo…he signed an executive order…he wants it closed…and only the uproar and political heat he got…and other lying democrats got… when his lying, liberal lap dog, Eric Holder started saying they were looking at where to bring  obama’s murdering muslim brother prisoners from Gitmo, did the lying “king” wanna-be, obama, back off on his demands.

    So, your statement that  your lying president obama “supports keeping Gitmo open”….according to Time Magazine anyway…is just ANOTHER LIE…you’re a liar.

    I could, and have gone over and over these types of lies with you, and you never admit the truth…your facts are wrong, deliberately so, and therefore, they are  lies, and you continue to push them…therefore, you are a liar…simple.

    Then you ask…”and how about telling me how loud pipes save lives? ;~)”….

    Very easy…and if you’d actually READ other people’s posts, you wouldn’t have to ask me such a foolish question…but, here’s a few examples of actual, living, riders who’s experiences have shown them how having a “loud” exhaust on a motorcycle, is much, MUCH safer, and quite possibly CAN SAVE LIVES…

    ….On Sept 6, 2013, at 6:04 am, CHRISTINE posted:

    “I know for a FACT that cars have HEARD me before they have SEEN me b/c they COULDN’T see me due to a vehicle blocking their view. One guy just 2 weeks ago did not pull out from a small side street b/c he could hear me coming. A huge delivery truck was blocking his view, his window was open and he heard me coming. How could he not? I have loud Vance and Hines pipes and I thank God I do.”….

    Then there’s….

    Chris says:

    November 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    It stands to reason, HEARING being one of your senses. Ambulances and police cars don’t have sirens for nothin’!!!

    Of course, loud pipes are not as piercing as sirens, but they can alert someone who otherwise doesn’t see you. I have, at times, heard motorcycles before I even saw them, BECAUSE they had loud pipes. I have also avoided backing out with my car or trusted my sight to change lanes because I HEARD a bike before I saw it. In one case it was in my blind spot, but I SURE heard it!
    How can anyone dispute this obvious advantage of loud pipes??? Sorry if it annoys Harley bashers like Matt, but.my life is more important than a little annoyance for them. Get over it.

    And just one more…from our friend in a foreign land….

    Attila says:  August 23, 2012 at 12:40 am

    I live in a country where motorcycling is still viewed as a fringe hobby, sport, past time, you give it a name :)

    Because of this, there is little respect for us, from car drivers, pedestrians and so on. In such an environment, loud pipes do save lives and have done so for me, more than once.

    Yes, I know, riding a loud bike in a city can be a bit annoying. But I prefer being loud and disturbing than hurt. When I see a car that wants to turn into my lane without signalling or giving right of way, I just pull the clutch and rev it a bit. Just to get their attention. It works a hell of a lot better than flashing him or tooting my horn :)

    The same goes with pedestrians. As people are not quite used to motorcycles, most think that they’ll be able to cross way before I get there – which is suicidal and just plain wrong. So again, I just rev it – you should see them step back on the sidewalk and sometimes even go an extra 10 meters to the nearest crossing.

    As a personal statistic:

    Loud pipe motorcycle: 0 traffic accidents (slipping on wet road due to my own stupidity does not count :P )

    Stock, silent Honda: 2 (both being results of cars not giving right of way – you know, the “I did not see you” syndrome)

    Well, they may not see me, but at least they damn well hear me.”….

    Now of course, I personally could add several of my own experiences, and have done so in the past, but you will not accept them…as I’m sure you will not accept the statements of the posters I quoted…because they don’t agree with YOUR opinion…you being a dishonest liberal and all…but there they are…”PROOF”.

    Now, you watch out for all those “fat SUVs” that you seem to think are “out to get you”, Rain Man, ya’ hear? lol

    LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!

  37. doug s. says:

    hey dan, instead of babbling lame off topic nonsense, why not address the issues?

    what part of “i don’t like obama” do you not understand?

    instead of mindlessly calling me a liar, how about telling me – even once – what i have ever posted to this thread that is not factual or truthful? can you do it EVEN ONCE?

    and how about telling me how loud pipes save lives? ;~)

  38. Dan says:

    LOL…the Rain Man returns!

    “Hey Raymond…how much is a Hershey bar?” “…a hundred dollars…’bout a hundred dollars.”

    What a lying, obama butt kissing, MA–ROON!

    Still “escape-and-evading” all those evil Republican soccer mom driven SUVS?

    Can’t run from your buddy, THE LIAR OF THE YEAR now…you’ve got too much in print, Rain Man! lol

  39. doug s. says:

    it seems some people have a misconception about who and/or what liberals are. pigeon-holing is complete ignorance, imo

    i consider myself “liberal” in some vague way. so, let me try to set the record straight.

    - democrats, most of them, are what i would call “republican-lite” – far from liberal.

    barack obama is smack dab in the center of the democratic party; he easily fits into the “republican lite” category:
    - he supports the banking industry,
    - he supports corporate welfare,
    - he caved on letting all the gwb tax cuts expire
    - he supports the tpp (nafta for asians),
    - he supports nsa spying,
    - he supports federal loans for the nuclear industry
    - he supports immunity for telecoms illegal wiretapping,
    - he supports drones,
    - he supports keeping troops in afghanistan,
    - he supports keeping guantanamo bay open,
    - he supports extraordinary renditions
    - he supports prosecution of edward snowdon
    - and of course he supports “romney-care”. (which is now called “obamacare”.) which is what the republicans were so vigorously pushing in the ’90′s. because it’s a sell-out to the insurance companies and the drug companies. but now that the republican-lite democrats co-opted it, cuz any *REAL* healthcare reform wouldn’t go through congress, it’s suddenly the work of evil socialist muslims. (socialist muslims? go figure.)

    liberals also know where barack was born. (as do most conservatives that are not stupid.) they (and most conservatives w/their minds still intact) also know that one of the tea party faves – ted cruz – would not qualify for the presidency under the same standards they attempt to hold barack to: because mr cruz really was *NOT* born in america, and his daddy was *NOT* american – just as they *ACCUSE* barack. (except barack *WAS* born in america, much to their chagrin.)

    far from the ignorant rantings of some conservatives, liberals do *NOT* think barack is anything close to being a messiah. most think he is a weak right-leaning corporate sell out. (which is why his rating are so low – he will never get the right wing support, now he’s lost the support of the liberals.) but the “conservatives” (who are far from it, imo, easily out-deficiting the dems in most administrations since the 50′s) have nothing else to rant about, so why not rant about the commie socialist kenyan-born messiah barack?

    this liberal will be voting for bernie sanders in 2016. i don’t know of any other liberals who are considering running. certainly a lot of “republican lite” types, like hillary, dog forbid…

    doug s.
    ps – this liberal also likes loud pipes, sorry to disappoint you. like the race exhaust on my buell s2. like the conti’s on my bevel-drive ducati. like the race exhaust on my suzuki supermoto. but, just because i happen to like loud pipes, it doesn’t mean i’m so stupid to believe they save lives. sorry. (now, if i could point the exhaust to exit forward instead of behind me, then maybe it might help. a little… ;~) ok, i admit – straight pipes, which are beyond loud and should not be allowed on public streets, imo – they *might* give some additional notice to some cage who is not already behind you. but those notified might then want to run you off the road, thanks to the obnoxiousness of your notification. so i still think it’s a toss-up as to whether or not it’s safer…

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