THE DEBATE GOES ON. I’ve never struggled so much to write a motorcycle article as I have with this one. A reader challenged me to enter the discussion about loud pipes earlier this year. At the time, I thought it an easy endeavor because I had my own years of experience and opinion on the matter.
However, I made a mistake: I decided to research the matter. And in the process, my opinion has been somewhat modified.
The Search for Evidence: “Loud Pipes Save Lives”
As you, too, might be inclined to do when seeking more info on a subject, I did an Internet search for “Loud Pipes Save Lives” and read through numerous articles at the top of the search results and much lower in the results.
What I came away with was less certainty on the subject than when I started. And more so than any time before, I recognized that truth can be illusive.
Now I don’t know if my personal experience is typical, or atypical, but I did ride for years with high-performance (and loud), exhaust pipes – when I was much younger. To this day, I don’t know how my ears survived. (Well, the fact is, now that I’m considerably more mature, the question of how well they survived is just as murky as my research on the matter of whether loud pipes save lives, or not.)
Although it appears my hearing is not as good as it used to be, how much of that is due to loud pipes or lots and lots of very loud concerts and very loud music blasting through headphones is difficult to discern. I’m sure it’s safe to say that neither supported long-term optimal hearing. (I only started wearing ear plugs while riding several years ago).
Loud Pipes Are Impractical For Long-Distance Touring
My first coast-to-coast motorcycle trip was on a motorbike with a high-performance, non-stock exhaust system that did not endear the neighbors to my notion of a spirited form of transportation. Although I’ve ridden coast-to-coast across North America a number of times since, I recall that first trip as a highlight of my life. And although I could discourse about the virtues of that summer adventure, in the early 80′s, for hours on end, one thing that I realized without any advice, feedback or suggestions from anyone else, was that loud pipes made for uncomfortable long-distance riding (and also that I would be switching from chain-drive to shaft-drive motorbikes for touring).
Personally, I don’t like loud pipes. As much as I love each and every kind of motorcycle, the only ones that diminish my enthusiasm for the brotherhood are those that disrupt the neighborhood harmony by announcing their every breath coming and going.
So, here I am, a long-distance, mature rider, with hundreds of thousands of miles of motorbike experience, who “used” to ride with loud pipes, and who has not liked them for years, and who is philosophically opposed to them due to their inherent and ongoing damage to the motorsport in the way they impinge on the lives of those non-riders whom are adversely effected by the noise pollution of their very existence. Hence, wouldn’t you think I’d be a vociferous opponent of the same?
Which brings me to the point of the first paragraph. I was already aware of the lack of real evidence that supports the concept that “loud pipes save lives.”
But lo and behold, my research did find anecdotal reports that extol the virtues of loud pipes.
The Truth, or Not?
So, what is the truth?
Are those riders who state that loud pipes “have” saved their lives just plain wrong?
What my research did “not” do is change my perspective on whether I, personally, will integrate loud pipes back into my riding: I won’t. In fact, in the future, I will likely include an electric motorcycle (which are practically silent), within a stable of riding choices.
However, what has resulted from my research regarding loud pipes is a softening of my perspective. Even though scientifically unproven, if riders’ lives have been saved because of loud pipes, or if riders believe they are safer with loud pipes, those are some compelling factors – at least for those individuals.
Even so, such does not address the rights of others to “not” be subjected to the noise of loud motorcycle exhaust systems.
In conclusion, although I am not an advocate for loud pipes, and even though I disagree with the use of the most obnoxious ones, and even though there is no hard evidence in support of their use as a safety catalyst, and even though the loudest pipes do damage to the overall public perception of motorcycling, I respect that there have been “some” quantity of riders (however large or small), who are still riding, purportedly as a result of loud pipes. Which has caused me to re-evaluate their application.
Better yet, what do YOU consider is the truth? Do loud motorcycle pipes save lives?
a loud bike MIGHT avoid accidents (a supposition). but it ACTUALLY annoys society. so, let’s accept the fact and finish this not so understandable discussion. NOISE OFF PLEASE for me, for you, for our children and even for our enemies (they don’t deserve such a punishment)
LWL…like i said a few lines down its OVER in calif thanks to the h.d. riders, and the sport bike riders with track mufflers on the street….the sport riders will crash ,die or live and move on to something else.. h.d. riders will blame every one else, pay enough fines put on mufflers, or god forbid move to my state…most people [male ] will be ok with some good sounds out of a motorcycle,or a sports car… it even makes them feel good its the NO mufflers that drives them to vote for some relief. and the new bikes will be sound proof because no manuf. will build mufflers just for calif its a one [ cost ] fits all world even EURO STANDARDS,so every one suffers.. thanks calif ..thanks h.d. riders.
I forgot to mention, I have been riding for over 40 years 44 to be exact. Harleys, European and Jap. I tried loud pipes, didn’t like them, didn’t like waking the neighbors baby and didn’t care for the loss of respect from my neighbors.
Gotta give respect to receive respect.
Simply put. “Loud Pipes Violate Rights” Bikers forget that operating a motor vehicle is a licensed privilege, not a right. Whereas people have a right of peaceful repose on their property and in their homes. Bikers say “Loud Pipes are Free Expression” some may agree but most will agree that your Free Expression end at my property line.
As for sound projection: The pipes are pointed to the rear, bike is moving forward. Ever hear of the “Doppler Effect”? Even operators of emergency vehicles are told that they can outrun their siren and people won’t hear the siren. I know this because I drove emergency vehicles. Look how many accidents involve emergency vehicles because people didn’t hear or see the flashing lights.
Loud pipes saving lives is a myth perpetuated as an excuse for bad behavior, not safety.
I have been startled by many a loud motorcycle splitting fast freeway traffic in California. The noise hit my ears after the bike passed me making me swerve and if there were a second bike on the opposite side passing half a second later he would be hit.
I rode my own bike primarily on the street and only split traffic when it was stopped. My bike was fitted with stock mufflers for my enjoyment and I ride knowing I’m invisible. No amount of noise will save me if they can’t see me.
Do loud pipes save lives, fraid not. Statistics show almost 80 % of motorcycle crashes are caused by hazzards approaching from the front. How many “loud pipe” advacates have their pipes pointing forward?
Loud pipes are vanity pipes. The noise they put out says “look at me”. Don’t think so. Why do riders rap the throttle when riding down a street with high buildings on the side? How many lives are they saving unless they happen to be driving on the sidewalk? All they are looking for is attention, kinda like a child throwing a screaming fit.
If they do indeed save lives, we should have them on all vehicles.
p.s. ok do loud pipes save lives… no way to say yes or no.. as in a study, numbers etc. SO its up to the rider to to say hey i think he heard me coming.. and that saved my life OK.. but do you [ cloud ] really think that the people that are pissed off by no muffler bikers ,REALLY CARE IF YOU LIVE OR DIE, your nothing to them, i am nothing to them, maybe a good donor for body parts..but gee i want that biker to live so blast my ear drums out …its ok if i go deaf.. as long as he it still alive … YA RIGHT not after wakeing up the neighbor hood at 4 am. they want to sleep, watch t.v. or what ever… so now comes the chance to vote you out of the picture, get mufflers of pay or loose the bike.so you die ..so .what your just a biker…and whats a biker its what calif film/t.v says we are.. sons of some body, gun runners ,dopers,rapers…another one dead because the truck did not hear him coming …GOOD fix the bumper on the truck ..one less noise maker… thats how they think DUDE…..
try reading the 4or5th para again.. bottom line is if you piss off non riders [as in calif ] with no mufflers then if you believe loud saves lives will be a moot point, because you will have none.. like i said i do not care if they are loud, rock on its your bike i can not judge your wants …. but 98% of the nion rideing voters seem to….
@ roy rodriguez:
I had to read your comment several times to try and understand what you wrote… and I’m still not 100% sure. I think maybe you missed the point of this post; the title reads, “Do Loud Pipes Save Lives?” not, “Do Loud Pipes Piss You Off?”
Either make an actual contribution to the topic, or submit your negativity someplace else.
@ Everyone Else:
I apologize to those who actually would like to take place in a progressive discussion regarding the safety of loud exhaust. I hate when people bicker back and forth in forums, hindering others. That said, I won’t respond to Mr. Rodriguez again.
If anyone out there can think of a time where having loud exhaust has actually put someone in danger or increased risk, I would love hear about it.
Peace.
well CLOUDS your calif dreaming is comeing to an end.. and who are you going to yell at for that…other bikers NO the 98% of the non rideing voters the – ”we want no mufflers bikes off the road ” ..the ones you 1% ers have pissed off with your packs of h.d. noise makeing loud NO mufflers bikes…the clowns in calif say ”what calif does / goes so will the rest of the country” and ” we out here are trend setters ” and you have said that with pride.. THANK ..DUDE…
Noise doesn’t travel forward? Um… yes it does. If that were true, you wouldn’t hear the sirens of emergency vehicles approaching from behind.
I live in traffic-ridden Los Angeles, and can attest that motorcycles with loud pipes are more easily noticed than those without. For example, here in California, motorcyclists are allowed to share lanes with passenger vehicles. Often, during high-traffic times, the folks on their motorbikes, take advantage of this by zipping between slow moving traffic on the highway. Of course, being stuck in this traffic is also an excuse for other drivers to erratically switch lanes without warning in an attempt to speed up their own commute. That being said, there have been many times that while driving, I have heard rear-approaching motorcycles before I have seen them… therefore, possibly making those riders safer. If sudden, loud noises didn’t raise attention, cars would not have horns.
Also, I take offense to the many generalizations made towards motorcyclists that ride Harley Davidsons (or other bikes with loud pipes). I don’t think it’s fair to assume that they’re “compensating for something” or that they simply want to look cool (I’m not saying that those people don’t exist, because that would be a false generalization in and of itself), but keep in mind that nearly every person on earth (whether on a Harley or in a Prius) has some sort of insecurity about themselves. I ride a motorcycle for the same reasons I do most things, including playing music, backpacking through national parks, working with kids, volunteering in homeless shelters, etc. ; I do it because it’s fun, and because it feels good. By the way, if you’re one of the enlightened who’s completely satisfied, please drop some knowledge on this forum, because we could all stand to learn something.
Operating a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous than other forms of standard transportation. If being on the loud side gives riders even the teeny-tiniest edge, I say go for it. For the record, I’m not a huge fan of overly-loud exhaust, and if you’re not either, I’m truly sorry if my noise disturbs you… but when I ride, I feel safer on a louder bike, and so do many others.
Noise, whatever its source does not travel forward. Loud pipes are heard after the bike passes, so no way do they “announce” a warning that could save a pedestrian who is stepping off a curb. However they do negatively affect the riders and passengers and spectators ear drums, just as Rock does. We are becoming a nation of hearing aid wearers….doubt it? Check it out.
And, the best part is that reducing the backpressure cuts the MPG. Yep, ask any mechanic…the mfg put mufflers on to help get better mileage, then the owner changes them out and wonders why his mpg drops…DUH…..doubt it? Check it out with any certified mechanic.
Noise is noise is noise, regardless of its source. We need less noise not more in our surroundings. If we riders don’t do it voluntarily, the guvamint will. Doubt it? Check out the states with noise laws and those who are considering it.
Been there, done that for over 60 years of riding…I have seen and heard it all.
do you have the muffler off your car so people can hear that coming ?? other bikers complain because the NO mufflers [h.d.] bikes will bring the 98% of the voteing to end it. as in calif, and some eastern states… non ridering people are feed up with NO mufflers…hell i could care less but is making all the noise and no speed/power make you look like a joke.. but the real thing here is 98% of the people you piss off will vote for extra quiet laws…not reasonable but more then is needed. its called over reacting . to get relected and keep / increasing control over the people the govt. will do it. plu the $ from the fines…then 80% of the bike riders will suffer because of the 10% of no mufflers.hell people can not hear cops/fire trucks with lights…as it is now…
I am convinced my LOUD Harley pipes have saved ME from accidents….and, being a woman, I don’t have a small pen** as someone suggested! lol. Drivers can usually hear me coming before they see me. And when I see someone, for example, backing out and am not sure they know I’m there, a simple twist of the throttle alerts them. Horns often offend though they can be used, of course. It’s just easier for me to twist the throttle a bit.
Some of the super quiet motorcycles…you don’t even know they’re around. I’ve seen them go silently down my street and think, is THAT even a motorcycle? I grew up with the sound of motorcycles and that’s part of the appeal, for me.
When I am driving, I usually HEAR a loud bike before I see it. That, to me, is a margin of safety not afforded by the quieter bikes.
To me, the sound of loud pipes is PURE music, whether from my bike or someone else’s. When I hear a bike in my neighborhood, that to me is exciting. When I see a group of bikers roar down the highway, it thrills me to the core. The louder, the better.
I can’t believe some of you people who are complaining are bikers yourselves! The ROAR-R-R of a bike is the very thing I love, besides the thrill of the ride, of course.
Really, HOW can a REAL biker take offense at the incredible roar of a motorcycle?? Who wants a quiet, wimpy bike?
do not worry the back lash is coming we will all suffer from it ,but we can live with no noise it’s the h.d. fools that will have to live with none of ” hear me,look at me, see me, over here, i am bad, do not mess with me ”….what causes that thinking ,for real… some say ” short male p…”.others they were ”picked on as a young dork and they want to get back”. or is it ”did not get enough attention as a older dork” ..nagging wife, crap job, low self esteem.??? this should be the question for this site,not another wear your gear, boring safety, or pack traveling..all that has been done to death.. for years….
I want to get a bumper sticker that says:
LOUD PIPES
ARE ANNOYING
I’ve seen one that says:
LOUD PIPES
SAVE EGOS
Some use the safety angle as a justification. But I think their real reason is emotional. They have loud pipes because they want to and they like or don’t care that it bugs their neighbors and others near the road.
I think loud pipes are rude and arrogant so want nothing to do with them.
I am frustrated by the noise from loud bikes. I am amazed at how hard it is to get away from the noise. I can be in quaint small towns, national forests, or just in my house, and be subjected to the drown of loud bikes. So much so at times, it interrupts conversation. Why do such a small percent of people feel justified by subjecting so many others to such noise? I keep hearing the moto “straight pipes save lives” this is a dubious claim at best, If the rider was really concerned with being seen he/she would were bright clothing(day-glow), there is a reason our military aircraft are black, it is the least visible?
Still standing by what I’ve stated, but very interested in all opinions…
The people who insist on the loudest pipes they can buy really piss me off.They also piss off the general public so much that states and communities are currently passing laws to make aftermarket pipes illegal. The article I read concluded with the statement-’if you think that you paid a lot for your loud aftermarket pipes, just wait ’til you go shopping for original equipment’ ! I dislike loud bikes, cars, trucks etc. My touring bike is a V twin, but has very modest and polite exhaust (stock). I’ve never read anywhere that there’s a higher percentage of BMW or Gold Wing riders that die due to an overly quiet bike… are they that much better drivers, more professional, alert than the loud braggarts out there, or is it maybe that they make the extra effort to be better lighted and wear the highest visibility clothing and such. I live on the edge of Yellowstone Park and I know that the extreme loud bikes couldn’t be a better anti-bike advertisement for the groups that would love to make all national parks be a bus- only visitation like Alaska’s Denali already is !! When I see idiots racing around town, – loud, rude and way over the speed limit, I feel the shame that they should feel. National parks are NOT the place for loud pipes, nor for obnoxious riders scaring herds of buffalo away from the roads. I live here and I see lots of both of these behaviors. Trust me- if you need to wear earplugs, you’re too loud to go in the park. And believe me, I’m not alone in this opinion; if we don’t clean up our act on our own, we will lose the visitation privilege- we’ve already lost most of our off-road rights to trail bikes on public lands. It would just be another slice off of our “freedoms” and sure ain’t no skin off their nose…
I ride with loud pipes, to be honest I prefer a softer noise but I have experienced how loud pipes help protect me as a rider. I do everything I can not to disturb the peace but they are loud and I don’t think I will change them anytime soon. True they are not the best for long rides but that because you can’t change the station! I rather listen to the drum beat lullaby of my motorcycle then music, am not in a car right, its about the ride not the luxury, or is it? I guess it depends. The hearing factor due to the noise! Your more likely to have hearing problems due to the vibration of a motorcycle then the noise of the pipes or from the drag of the air due to the wind. Noise, will more likely make you tune death but the vibration and wind push in your inner ear will make you death.
I truly do not want to disturbed anyone and though I don’t believe there is a thing out there that can save your life I do believe that loud pipes can help you more then anything else. I mean a glow in the dark vest won’t help. The problem is they don’t see you so if they don’t see you what does it matter what your wearing, common sense right! Yea, it’s to help you be more visible, well so are loud pipes! There is not a soul that can say that they have not looked around when they heard a loud noise, like when a dish drops in a restaurant or a car crash in the street. The truth is nothing gets your attention like noise and that’s what I want the attention of a driver.
They say it hasn’t been proven but how do you take statistics on things that did not occur! Sure you can take statistics on crashes because they are recorded but who is recording that rider with the near miss, it’s his word there is no evidence because there is no proof it happen except for his word.
Nothing and I mean nothing is safer then common sense and good practical riding skills but having an edge always helps And for me the best edge is loud pipes. A rider just has to be responsible with them. To many newbie riders abused them for the cool factor instead of using them for what there true potential, safety.
I might lower the DB someday but never so low that they can’t be heard.
That’s might thoughts on the subject. LOUD PIPES HELPS RIDERS
hugh–the steel pipe is a good idea just use it on the drivers door glass that will get them to wake up its time to stop wineing about safe rideing and looking out for the bad car driver , ..ok so he misses you now but he/she still has not changed so they will get the next biker.. …why do we live in fear of them its time we get there att. with a pipe through there door glass. or the old steel brgs up over into the windshield. time to fight back next time they will not tail gate.they should live in fear of us
I used to think that loud pipes were safer. But that was back when cars weren’t as well sound insulated. Today, the person I have to watch out for most is weaving along in and out of their lane while texting, listening to the radio and eating a bowl of fruit loops. Loud pipes won’t help me with these, unless it’s a steel pipe that I whack them over the head with. I still love the sound of loud pipes – on someone else’s bike. With my own bike, I would rather put money into good gear and better suspension and tires – the stock exhaust is just fine!
My pipes are a little louder than stock pipes. I do have respect for neibors. Last year on the 210 fwy in CA on a nice sunny day. My friend was hit from the back. He was riding uncorked. A 19yr pulled in the middle or the pack. His bike was very loud, but it didn’t save him. You still have to try to be save.
how about pipes that are somewhat louder than stock but not the extreme open pipes that really annoy people? It seems to me that while it’s true that very loud pipes are not a comprehensive safety plan for all the reasons stated, some level of noise helps with cars in the next lane as well as pedestrians
I have a Harley and a Kawasaki versys, both with stock pipes. I am shocked at how drivers and pedestrians don’t notice I am a few feet away in the Versys. I don’t want to alienate the public but somewhere in the middle there should a noise level that is a fair compromise
I guess I fall under …. not liking loud pipes. In my belief its just the Boy hid the Man coming out.
But the debate will live long after my last ride.
I do like Mussel Cars, bikes racing cars, drag cars and boats for that matter, but Loud pipes just for the sake of pissing off the neighbours is just not expectable.
When I was riding my BMW K1200LT, very quietly through the Redwood Highway in northern California, I could hear LOUD PIPES coming through the canyons of tall trees for a very long distance and for a very long time. I hated the intrusion on my sanity and deeply resented it. But, of course, I was definitely aware of the oncoming motorcycles (it was only two but sounded like 20). Fortunately, I find I can live with loud pipes. Don’t enjoy them, wouldn’t drive with them but hey, if they wan ‘em loud, go for it.
What a confused and complicated answer to a simple question.
Easy Answer: If you have loud pipes and your alive, then they work – but if your dead….well they did’nt.